America's biggest mistake

Wrong, always wrong. Even after I proved the cites for you. You really are a hopeless case.

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The ASC-15 (Advance System Controller Model 15) was a digital computer deve loped by International Business Machines (IBM) for use on the Titan II inte rcontinental ballistic missile (ICBM).[1][2] It was subsequently modified a nd used on the Titan III and Saturn I Block II launch vehicles.

Its principal function on these rockets was to make navigation calculations using data from inertial sensor systems. It also performed readiness check s before launch.[3] It was a digital serial processor using fixed-point dat a with 27-bit words. The storage was a drum memory. Electronic circuits wer e welded encapsulated modules, consisting of discrete resistors, transistor s, capacitors, and other components welded together and encapsulated in a f oam material. It was manufactured in the IBM plant at Owego, NY.[4]

The ASC-15, designed and built by IBM, using discrete transistors, was on the rockets, not on the ground, stupid.

"ASC-15 for Titan II

The first inertial guidance system for the Titan II was built by AC Spark P lug, and included an inertial measurement unit based in designs from Draper Labs at MIT and the ASC-15 computer designed and built by IBM in Owego, NY . The first Titan II missile carrying this system was launched 16 March 196

  1. "

Irrelevant of course to the fact that Titan and Saturn V used guidance comp uters designed and built by IBM from discrete transistor components. The moving parts were the sensor inputs to the computer, stupid. And those guidance compute rs were in those rockets, no matter how much you try to deny it.

Wrong, always wrong.

Reply to
trader4
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

They were the first and only in fact at one time. Even before computers, they made the radar transceiver control systems. For the SAM Lark, for instance.

Then on to many other missiles... then on to the Minuteman II.

Yep.

Sure they were. 200,000 of them, in fact. The AGC for the LEM and the command module had about three each made for them.

Raytheon made the computer and hermetic chassis. Fairchild made the chips. SOME of them got contracted out to other fab houses. It was the beginning of having more than one vendor make the same thing available for a mil assembly so that shortages could be lessened.

It became standard practice. The radio/computer on every US fighter is made by ViaSat, and the laternate vendor that makes the exact same product turnkey level is EADS.

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Space-Company

I made the RF amp assembly. It uses a paradigm known as SDR.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Nope. I never said anything about using tube based computrs in a spaceship. I in fact stated that it is/was impossible.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

You are such a retarded fat f*ck.

The site yo are looking for, punk... is this one:

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

Thanks for proving yourself wrong. From your cite above:

"1958 IBM develops the ASC-15 guidance computer for the United States Air Force Titan II missile computer. "

Exactly what I told you, stupid. And that ASC-15 was based on a discrete transistor design. Not tubes, so IBM was clearly using transistors for computers before NASA was formed like we told you. And second, it shows that IBM had a working guidance system for missiles using transistors. And as I have told you many times now, IBM proposed a similar design, using transistors, for the Apollo guidance system.

Reply to
trader4

Yeah, what you stated was that IBM was building computers with tubes at the time, which of course is wrong. Always wrong.

Reply to
trader4

BS, lies and more BS. Having started by claiming that IBM computers used tubes at the time of Apollo, now you just divert off into the wilderness. The simple fact is computers were already being made using discrete transistors at the time the Apollo program began. For the guidance computer two competing designs were considered. One was IBM, which proposed a design based on the transistor based computers already being used in Titan rockets and later used in Saturn V for the moon shot. The other proposal was from Draper Labs, using a design using some of the first ICs, simple NOR gates. Both were considered viable, but the final decision chose the Draper design. And while Fairchild came up with the NOR gate design, the actual chips used were apparently fabbed by Philco Ford, who had licensed the chip design from Fairchild. Those are the facts. Fairchild was not involved in designing the guidance system. Following that BS logic, then Intel "designed" everything that one of their chips goes into, eg an industrial robot or satellite.

Reply to
trader4

What you actually stated was that at the time of the Apollo program, IBM was still using tubes. Which of course was wrong. Always wrong.

Reply to
trader4

snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in news:9dcb0a11-27fa-40dd-a57c- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Yes, you are stupid. Because as I said, it had Fairchild chips in it.

So not 100% discrete.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in news:d6352223-7038-4f24-bc3c- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

computers

No. I did not claim that "IBM computers used tubes at the time".

The statement was that tube type computers were in use at the time and they were. And that is regardless that they were producing solid state machines. They were still selling and customers were still using tube type machines. That included NASA. They ALSO bought some of the solid state machines. Both the Army and the NACA used them, and subsequently so when the NACA became the NASA.

Your mother lied when she said you exited her birth canal, when it is decidedly evident that you exited her descending colon. She should be put into prison.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

No, it's not regardless of the fact that IBM was producing solid state computers. Let's review:

I posted:

Sure, the moon program

And you replied with:

Nuff said about what you meant. Fact is that at the time the Apollo program began, IBM was already building computers based on discrete transistors. As cited, IBM had already built the ASC-15 guidance computer for the Titan II ROCKET, using transistors. And IBM was the competing design choice for the Apollo guidance computer, their design was similar to the ASC-15, using transistors. IBM also supplied the guidance computer for the Saturn V, using discrete transistors. So, the allegation that IBM was "using tubes" and that would not make it to the move, is wrong.

They were still selling and customers were still

So, if we're having a discussion on Ford's capability with current technology in 2019, it would be correct to say that Ford can't supply a 2019 car, because some people are still driving a 1975 Pinto?

That included NASA. They ALSO bought some

You're always so angry because you're always so wrong.

Reply to
trader4

No idea what you're even talking about, because you've cut out all context. But if you're claiming that Fairchild chips were in the Apollo guidance computer that actually went to the moon, it's wrong. Those chips which were simple NOR gates, while initially designed and built by Fairchild, were actually fabbed and supplied by Philco Ford for the computers that went to the moon. That doesn't lessen the importance of Fairchild and the importance of Noyce's co-invention of the IC, but from what I've seen and the cites I've provided, it's a historical fact that the actual ICs used were fabbed by Philco Ford.

Reply to
trader4

Even today when selecting components for space application it is very important to have a long reliability history for each component type before selecting one type. For this reason, systems used in a pace applications look "old fashioned" even before the launch.

In the days when ICs were young, there was not much long term reliability data so large batches of a component must be subjected to harsher than expected conditions to get some accelerated reliability data.

While reading some AGC reliability papers, I got the impression that there were two main reason while only dual 3 input RTL NOR gates were used.

1.) Having multiple types of logic chips would require accelerated reliability testing for each type. Now you only needed to test one type. 2.) Those NOR gates were available from multiple sources, so in addition to normal second source considerations, you could get reliability for multiple batches from different sources.

So by no means the dual 3 input NOR gate was not the only logic chip on the market during the AGC design phase.

The only other chip type used in AGC was an analog differential amplifier used as the magnetic memory sense amplifier.

Reply to
upsidedown

I agree. Maybe you can explain that to DL. It looks to me like what you outline happened. The Apollo guidance computer design was nailed down early on, using Fairchild NOR ICs, they stuck with the design because they needed a stable, reliable design that worked. But by the time the actual computers that went to the moon were built, Fairchild had moved on to newer, better chips and it was Philco Ford that fabbed the NOR gates used and I'd suspect that was probably their only customer for them by then. It's ironic, first NASA used something bold, new and risky, then ultimately they used something old and obsolete. That's how fast the industry was moving and it hasn't changed since. IDK what the exact time period was, ~8 years maybe? What's the life cycle of many digital chips today? About the same or less.

Agree, even more so depending on what period you call the "design phase". TI introduced the 7400 series in 1964, for example.

Reply to
trader4

snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in news:bf10e34f-079b-464c-81e8- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

But were STILL selling using and servicing contracts and systems of the tube variety.

Get off your uninformed hobby horse, boy.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in news:bf10e34f-079b-464c-81e8- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

You are always so full of shit, because you are shit.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Two things idiot. Well three. The first... nice snip of where I said they WERE made by Fairchild... somebody should snip your larnyx.

Second Fairchild made a ten transistor device in 1960 that none of you have mentioned because apparently none of you are aware of it.

Third, Fairchild made the NOR gates other vendors ALSO assisted.

One must remember that there are several made and tested even though only one gets installed. That is how mission critical mil products work. That means that thousands of those chips had to be made. And there were several before Apollo 11, so we are talking a huge number got fabbed, tested, & culled

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

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