America's biggest mistake

You really are one dumb offensive idiot.

Bill Sloman wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

No. I snipped where *I* said 1960. You replied with 1967, so what I snipped that you wrote makes NO DIFFERENCE.

I did not 'cheat'.

1967 is NOT 1960.

In 1960 they were NOT selling ANY chips to ANY commercial buyers. There were none. Fairchild's first chip went into the Titan ICBM. missile.

The ic's that TI were silicon, not Germanium.

The Space Program had very little to do with making ic's. The oil industry used more computers than the Space Program. The launch computer for the moon shot was a RCA 110a. The RCA 110 was made to control drilling rigs. The 110A was a modified 110. The mod was to add 7 more banks of memory. T he RCA 110A had 8 memory banks each bank was 8 k of 24 bit words. The memo ry was mag core memory. So much for NASA pushing the development of the state of the art. The Com puters used transistors , not tubes or ic's.

Dan

That's your opinion, and it strikes me as being worth about as much as your opinion about the relationship between the Apollo ranging system and the Global Positioning System. But that's just my opinion.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

" snipped-for-privacy@krl.org" wrote in news:301b0fed-f530-4606- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

No. TI's FIRST IC (the one they claim to be first with) was Ge.

Their SUBSEQUENT chips may have been Si, but Noyce developed the Si chip first and that and Fairchild is what the mil boys went with.

" snipped-for-privacy@krl.org" wrote in news:301b0fed-f530-4606- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

The makers of the Titan missile might differ with you.

The Gemini spacecraft sits on top of a Titan II missile.

Guess what is inside?

NASA was the NACA.

Space and missiles that go up into and then drop out of space were very much part of ALL computer development, and continued into the 'space programs' we added to the military realm.

Computers were initially used by the military to compute mortar and howitzer projectile trajectories that formerly took a room full of women with tabletop calculators to do.

" snipped-for-privacy@krl.org" wrote in news:301b0fed-f530-4606- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Not back then.

" snipped-for-privacy@krl.org" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

The "launch computer" was a huge mainframe in Houston.

The moonshot LEM AGC computer was made by Raytheon. They had IC chips in them.

custom chips... hmmmm...

" snipped-for-privacy@krl.org" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

You are very smart, D. Just lacking a bit in this case.

They used ICs.

Perhaps you should provide us for a cite for that. I've read about Noyce and Kilby who are both separately credited for the invention of the IC and have never read that NASA and the military told them to do it, funded them to do it or were directly involved in any way. NASA in particular is an absurd assertion, because Kilby was already working on his IC before NASA even existed.

Was the military a logical customer for products containing ICs? Sure. But they and the space program were not the only customers. For example, IBM, Sperry-Rand, DEC, etc were building computers for commercial use using discrete transistors and they were obvious customers. So, again, did NASA help create demand for ICs and help make the advancement happen faster? Sure. But the technology was revolutionary, compelling and it would have happened anyway, though it likely would have taken a longer.

Regarding Apollo specifically, when the contract for the guidance computer was issued, a design using ICs was only one of the two choices. The other was an IBM design, using discrete components. And there was a lot of argument in favor of the IBM design, primarily in that it was proven, it was used in ICBMs and the Saturn V, and a more reliable choice than going with ICs, which had just started to become available. Particularly of note, those responsible for the evaluation did not say the IBM design could not be used because of size, weight, etc.

The first integrated circuit made by Jack Kilby at Texas Instruments in 195

8 was made with germanium. The first practical integrated circuits were mad e with silicon at Fairchild, using their newly invented planar process.

"Fairchild went forward and created IC chips for use in the Apollo spacecra ft which went to the moon. It was this program along with using chips for s atellites that spread the IC from military applications to the commercial m arket. It also lowered the price of the IC drastically which made it perfec t for use in many electronic devices."

ry used more computers than the Space Program.

Not a particularly relevant observation.

ade to control drilling rigs. The 110A was a modified 110. The mod was to add 7 more banks of memory. The RCA 110A had 8 memory banks each bank was 8 k of 24 bit words. The memory was mag core memory.

omputers used transistors , not tubes or ic's.

The launch computer stayed on the ground. It's size and mass didn't matter much.

The mass of the gear that went into orbit did need to be minimised.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Oh boy! *you* "have never read".

Like I give a fat flying f*ck about your endorsements.

All those computers you have been blathering about and you have no clue what they were used for.

In fact there were two competing choices for the guidance computer for Apollo. One was an IBM design that used discrete components, not ICs. It's advantage was that it was a proven design at the time. So NASA did not share your opinion.

This is what you posted:

"IBM was using tubes and that was not going to cut it on the moon."

IBM, Sperry Rand, DEC, etc were already producing computers using transistors, not tubes. And an IBM design using discrete components was one of the two designs that NASA considered for Apollo, the decision was close, so obviously NASA thought a design that used discrete semiconductors was viable.

"IBM was using tubes and that was not going to cut it on the moon."

Nuff said.

Wrong, always wrong.

Exactly what period are you referring to? By the time of the actual moon shot, ICs were in fact off the shelf and had been for years. TI introduced the 7400 family in 1964.

I did not say that any computers had ICs in them at the time the US started the Apollo program. However you posted this whopper:

"IBM was using tubes and that was not going to cut it on the moon."

This from the guy who posted:

"IBM was using tubes and that was not going to cut it on the moon."

In fact IBM, Sperry Rand, DEC, etc were producing computers using transistors when the Apollo program started. And there were two different concepts for the Apollo guidance computer at the time, one using ICs the other an IBM design using discrete components. The two were evaluated and hotly debated. No one was saying the IBM design could not be used, in fact it was favored by many because it was a proven design, while ICs were new and uncertain.

Wrong, always wrong.

"Since TI and Fairchild were the co-inventors of the IC, you might expect t hat they would release the first commercial devices, and in fact this was s o. In some places on the Web the Fairchild 900 series is credited with bein g the first to market, in 1961, but the documented evidence does not suppor t that: the Chip Collection gives a very specific date of March 1960 and pr ice for the first announced TI chip, the SN502, and Khambata states unequiv ocally that "In 1960, Texas Instruments announced the introduction of the e arliest product line of integrated logic circuits. TI's trade name is 'Soli d Circuits' for this line. This family, called the series 51, utilized the modified DCTL circuit...". Finally, "Electronic Design" magazine announced the Texas devices in March 1960,and Fairchild prototype chips in November 1

960. "

Wrong, always wrong.

Here's a photo of a TI ad for their ICs, 1962:

That was an expensive mistake, but it didn't create satellites. It actually didn't create much of anything.

America's biggest mistake was slavery.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics

958 was made with germanium. The first practical integrated circuits were m ade with silicon at Fairchild, using their newly invented planar process.

The Germanium ic was a proof of concept. But the first ic commercially ava ilable made by TI was Silicon.

raft which went to the moon. It was this program along with using chips for satellites that spread the IC from military applications to the commercial market. It also lowered the price of the IC drastically which made it perf ect for use in many electronic devices."

stry used more computers than the Space Program.

Only relevant in that the oil companies actually bought considerable more computers than the space program.

made to control drilling rigs. The 110A was a modified 110. The mod was to add 7 more banks of memory. The RCA 110A had 8 memory banks each bank w as 8 k of 24 bit words. The memory was mag core memory.

Computers used transistors , not tubes or ic's.

r much.

THe launch computer was also very slow. It had a 1 megacycle clock and was a 24 bit serial computer. So the fastest instruction time was 24 microse conds with most instructions taking considerable more time. Dan