Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China

The problem with Altium Designer is that the people that develop it, test it and ship it, have themselves never done any kind of real EDA - Its obvious in the features they focus on that they have little grasp of the problem space when compared to the offerings of their competitors in the same price range.

I believe at this point Pulsonix would be the best path if people are looking to upgrade or purchase new licenses. There is no guarantee that Altium as a company will be around this time next year, so who knows what will happen to multi-year subscriptions and promised upgrade cycles.

They appear to spend MUCH more time thinking about OOP and database programming than electronic design.

They appear to be moving away from true perpetual licenses, so even if they are still around..

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

One of the few companies where it seems that real circuit deigners work on the CAD software is Cadsoft. In the forums it happens that someone asks about a circuit problem and then ocasionally one of the Cadsoft guys has the answer.

Then they'd see major losses in the consultant's part of their customer base. Those guys can usually only gradually glide into retirement and the CAD has to keep working until Alzheimer's or something else strikes. One would not be willing to pay full license fees every year in semi-retirement. I would never agree to such a "deal".

I think it may be a bit premature to tell. I'm not connected with Altium at all. They are running a loss, but mostly because of the way they book their revenue, $13M in deferred revenue, typically from yearly licenses pre-purchased (and $4M in cash). They may have trouble finding local talent, I've been there before and see 1) a strategy to lower cost 2) connect with a faster growing country. Obviously competitors will start to create FUD like the postings here that they wont be around. I doubt that will happen. Worse case, they get bought. I see no indication that product development is slowing or will slow. Heck they just were explaining on Chalk Talk how their new capabilities help integrate IP into the process. And their view is a 'system view' which is steadily being understood. Just my opinion.

Cheers! Rich

I was talking to their reps at a local trade show last Thursday... it seems to be some kind of thing where the full original libraries are held on their servers so you would be able to access the existing components in your designs but not components you'd not used before (unless you are up to date on the 'subscriptions' which are now quite a substantial part of the 'purchase' price). I hope I misunderstood and it's not that way. That means that they can hold for ransom all the cost of learning their system (and let's face it, all EDA program suites are quirky and have a fairly steep learning curve). Orcad is not looking so bad.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

This doesn't look too good:

AFAIK the stock was around AU$5 a decade ago.

If they do that then I'd wager that this would be their end. A slow one maybe, but I can't imagine people putting up with that. Just picture this: You sit on an 11h flight to Asia, want to do some design work and you can't because you can't access their servers from up there. What were they smoking?

I am using it right now. Can't say that I like it. It ain't what it used to be in the SDT days.

Yes, but that was before the internet bubble collapsed. I think Altium will be around for many years. They have a big user base and they have been around for decades (remember Protel?). If they get their act together they will be back on track. Moving to China is not a bad idea since most electronics development happens over there and they can't compete with Eagle.

ay

=3DALU

I disagree. Altium could crush eagle in a matter of months if they so chose. Unfortunately they long ago abandoned the low end market, and even lost focus on the core PCB/SCH market, what with the "turning electronics design upside down" campaign were they made the PCB tool the optional extra bit.

Dave.

I had to laugh when I first saw that one. According to Altium, all electronics is digital.

And then they started to belive their own bullshit.

I think you underestimate the learning curve of Altium. I found it a very complex product and I wouldn't even consider it unless I was creating diagrams and PCBs all day. I never worked with Eagle so I can't compare but a 'low end' product usually is easier / more straightforward to work with.

Like I said: if Altium gets their act together they could keep their customer base. A few years ago a lot of people where moving to Altium. There must be a reason why they abandoned why Altium choose to get out of the low end market. IIRC you could get the whole package for the same price Cadence charged for Orcad capture + PCB (without autorouter).

Sorry, Dave, but I really doubt that. The pricing difference between Eagle and Altium for guys like me who only need a schematic editor is about an order of magnitude. If Altium would break out the schematic editor maybe they could match it but given their financial condition that could cut into bone. Plus Eagle now has the financial backing of Farnell, not exactly a small enterprise.

What Cadsoft did clearly wrong IMHO was not realizing how important a hierarchy would have been for their sales success, and their ads were lacking. So it all remained more geared towards hobbyists. But V6 supposedly brings a hierarchy so that could all change. Then I'll buy the upgrade.

(sorry, can only see your posts when someone sans google domain answers)

ROFL! They were kidding, weren't they? But even over 25 years back at our university a prof said that we won't need to pay too much attention to transistors and discrete stuff since it'll all be ICs soon. Many students believed that nonsense. I didn't, and that provides me with work now :-D

...and I thought Cadence/OrCAD was bad.

Rikard. It would be informative if you would declare who you work for. One of Altium's competitors, perhaps?

The people that develop. test and ship Altium Designer actually have quite a good grasp of the problem space. I'd suggest that we design many more production boards in-house than any of the competitors you are alluding to. All of the hardware we sell (NanoBoards, daughter board, peripheral boards, etc) are fully designed in-house using Altium Designer.

And I can assure you, Altium and Altium Designer will most certainly be around this time next year, and for many years to come. Moving the HQ to China (we will remain an Australian company with a substantial office in Australia) is a way of assuring this.

For the record, I am product manager with Altium Limited.

...

I don't get the impression that anyone at WestDev (the guys behind Pulsonix) are actual hardware designers either.

But hey, Pulsonix did finally add scripting support a few months ago now, after years of it being a very popular user request!

I suspect Joerg is correct that, if Eagle gets around to adding hierarchy support -- and perhaps changes the user interface to something a little closer to what most people "expect" these days --, they could end up becoming one of the last major players in low- to mid-end schematic capture/PCB layout tools.

---Joel

If that's the case, I suggest that instead of ragging on your potential customers that you listen to them. *I* for one would not have *my* data held hostage. Not going to happen. Never! As much as I'd like to dump OrCAD, I'd never willingly go to Altium.

"The Journey is the reward"

eff.com

If they are going to do things like this, that rules out our company going with them. Have been burnt before by people closing down or changing policy or direction, and this sort of thing leaving people high and dry.

umat all. =A0They are running a loss, but mostly because of the way

I agree, I think they'll end up getting bought sooner than later - I would put money on it, in case someone is running a wager.

Moving HQ AND Core Development like this is such a wild move it looks desperate. They are really betting the company. This type of wild stuff may have worked back in the early 90's with a smaller Protel but I don't think it will now. Also I read somewhere a post by the director of communications that just proves people do get dummer as you go up the power pyramid. Having spent time there, the problem is that 1). Shanghai is an overcrowded mess 2). Contrary to popular belief, it is quite an expensive location 3). They still haven't fallen in love with paying for their software and 4). If China is really going to be IT, they could have just gone crazy on sales efforts in the main manufacturing zones which btw are not Shanghai.

As an ex-user of Protel/Altium in the USA, I can say this is no longer my favourite package having gone over to Eagle some time ago - Its problem is simple: overcomplicated, overpriced and bloated. I do not feel like paying for most of the package but have no choice under present pricing models. I doubt the chinese are going to pay the prices Altium have been asking for the same reasons. Also I doubt China is going to be IT - its just getting too expensive (I'm finding for some materials its cheaper to source again in bulk within the USA) and they are moving away from manufacturing as the central driver, which has left me looking again at india, SE Asia and places like Thailand for cost saving. If they were looking for high paying users in my opinion its still the USA they should have moved to - but even this reasoning is flawed. I don't care where altium is based, and I doubt most others in this business do either. The world has flattened. I don't care if they are next door or across the globe. I think the connection between location for most software vendors and sales volume is remote. It is simply a matter of sales efforts in the target market.

I hope and would suggest that those laid off move across the street and stand up a competitive package, based on a lower pricing model for small to medium businesses. SME's in my opinion are where it will be at in the coming decade as the larger players continue exiting the design space. Altium have moved the other way and they don't deserve your loyalty so I suggest you stick it to them in Sydney.

Jeff

Since I happened to have mentioned Dave Haynie here...

Turns out he's having a "garage sale" with lots of old Commodore stuff he saved from the dumpsters (when they declared bankruptcy) and other stuff he worked on over the years. Intesting to see some old kinda-familiar hardware and software:

I wonder when we'll be seeing some fo the SED regulars "garage sales" -- surely Keith must have an old transputer kicking around his garage and Joerg must have a spare ultrasound machine or two... :-)

---Joel