A voltage regulator right up Jim's alley

So we have a and need to put it to work. But not doing what you'd think.

See, we're building a electric conversion, based on a Miata. I call it a MiEta, but opinions vary. The first motor is DC, since any suitable AC one was major money; but hopefully we'll revisit that later.

As part of the testbed work on the Arduino-based motor controller, we need a dynamometer to load it down. And that's where the PennTex comes into play.

We don't have the original regulator; it was not reachable in the boneyard. Further, we're likely to want have software control of the load.

I can't find anything documented, but assume the field will draw say 5 amps at 28V. We can use a brute force lineally-regulated DC supply, but can we instead use PWM of the field? At what kind of PRR and widths?

Second question: what to load it with. Instead of futzing around with heater loads in water baths etc; I started to wonder -- suppose I just short all three phases together? If we limit current to rated values; what's the downside? We'd have to watch thermal dissipation but it has a big fan already.

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A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Reply to
David Lesher
Loading thread data ...

(1) It's unclear just exactly what you're trying to do... load down your DC motor by way of controlling the alternator?

(2) (Most) Alternators have three-phase rectification built-in, so you load them with DC.

(3) In exercise bicycles in my past, the load on the alternator was a beasty, fan cooled, shunt regulator at ~ 14V (*). Varying the load to the exercise bicycle was accomplished by duty-cycle modulation of the alternator field. Feed back loop between shunt regulator and field PWM sets Watts of load that the rider "felt".

(*) Also supplied power to the electronics. We used Delco alternators because they are slightly magnetized and thus are self-starting without needing a battery. (That's why early GM vehicles had "always-on" headlights... the minimum load :-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

      Remember: Once you go over the hill, you pick up speed
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Yes, we need to test the motor system: batteries, motor controller, motor, under varying load. The alternator is coupled to a belt that is driven by the driveshaft.

Yes, but diodes fail under abuse. The three-phase output is readily accessable on this unit.

This is a few more watts but the samde idea. Don't think my LM305 will handle

5KW even with fan cooling...

Tell me about the PWM it used. How do automotive alternators react to such?

--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Reply to
David Lesher

Yes! But! It's a whole lot easier to shunt regulate DC.

And it's easier to implement variable load via varying the field, rather than at the output end.

Ever heard of discrete devices ?:-)

NPN or NMOS switch at the bottom of field winding. Top of field winding to A+. Flyback diode across field (cathode to A+), prevents over-voltaging the switch and smooths the field current.

What are the max Watts of load you're trying to attain?

Run all your numbers very carefully.

Large passenger bus alternators run in an oil bath.

5kW is over 7HP.

I can't remember how much theory is included in my alternator patents. You can read them on my website. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

      Remember: Once you go over the hill, you pick up speed
Reply to
Jim Thompson

..

I was going to regulate the field; in fact was considering a ~~zero ohm load bank. We do have a 500A/12V carbon pile load bank but it's limited duty cycle unless we run IT in oil.

Like the CK 722?

Well, it's rated for 5600 watts; we assume we can push somewhat above that for short periods; iffen we have good air cooling.

Yep, but the driving motor is +20KW.

OK; will look. Will be back to ask more dumb questions.

--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Reply to
David Lesher

I still have some of those and some CK760 and CK761 ;-)

There are never dumb questions, just dumb answers ;-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

      Remember: Once you go over the hill, you pick up speed
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Have you considered a eddy current brake? I knew someone that was using one for a automotive dynamometer.

=20 Dan

Reply to
dcaster

If you want to go that route, just connect a PM motor to the driving system and use it for dynamic braking or, back generate some energy out of it.

Jamie

Reply to
Jamie

This was for automobiles with several hundred horse power.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

the power has got to go somewhere zero ohm load means the load will be the dc resistance of the generator, I'm sure the generator is not rather for 5KW loss

would you rather the generator or the load get hot?

-Lasse

Reply to
langwadt

Have you considered a mechanical energy dump? It'd be easy to put stirring paddles into buckets of oil/water/grits and measure the torque with a load cell. The load cell measures the stopping force for the turntable the bucket rests on. Torque times shaft angular velocity is power.

Reply to
whit3rd

We considered lots of schemes, but most were messy, large and hard to build. If this works well, we might buy a 2nd alternator {another $20} and use both.

--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Reply to
David Lesher

David Lesher expounded in news:iisti7$cj8$ snipped-for-privacy@reader1.panix.com:

When I was young, my father built a portable welder using a surplus aircraft generator and a Dodge slant-6 engine. A generator (or few) of that size, might be better. There must be still surplus aircraft generators available (at the time, my father bought it from Princess Auto).

Warren

Reply to
Warren

Something like the Heenan and Froude dynamometers used in engine test labs would be ideal, but as you say, large, heavy, expensive and probably unobtainable..

A load bank on an alternator is probably the easiest solution. We built a water cooled load bank for an old a/c apu a few years ago, 200v 3ph

400Hz at 30Kva max. We used 5Kva water immersion heater elements (cheap) in a big tank of water. Load was varied via alternator field current and heater element switching, series parallel etc. 20 Kva is a *lot* of heat to get rid of, if running for any length of time. Depending on tank size, the water boils, but you just top it up like the old hopper cooled barn engines of years ago. The advantage is that the tank can be outside the lab, just run the cables outside...

Regards,

Chris

Reply to
ChrisQ

Just make the load bank a big-ass zener (or active equivalent), then it's easy to cover all ranges just with PWMing the field. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

      Remember: Once you go over the hill, you pick up speed
Reply to
Jim Thompson

What, a 20Kw zener ?, even allowing for inefficiences, you still need to lose 10 or 15Kw.

If you are going that route and have budget, why not hire a big electronic load, which could then be ieee488 or serial line programmed directly from a computer ?.

Another possibility is to ask university mech or electrical labs. Many of them have electrical machine demo / test teaching labs which might be ok for the job and they may even be interested from a research point of view. ie: low expense solution, especially if it were presented in right way :-)...

Regards,

Chris

Regards,

Chris

Reply to
ChrisQ

No matter how you cut it, you have to rid yourself of that energy. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

      Remember: Once you go over the hill, you pick up speed
Reply to
Jim Thompson

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