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an attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in contacting the police) I quit using them. I was not alone and eBay realiz ed supporting the sellers in this manner was not as profitable as making th e sellers be honest.

a dishonest buyer. But so are credit cards. I've never had a dispute turn ed down.

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I have to call bullshit on you because I was there and I experienced it.

ell to "proven" buyers with significant positive feedback. I think 10 tran sactions was the magic number.

Then you run the risk of getting ripped off and you admit you have. Most s ellers at the time would not sell to buyers without positive feedback to pr event trouble from "problem buyers".

Yeah, new sellers and a few experienced sellers would work with you, but no t so many. There were even people who would work together to do bogus tran sactions like sell a piece of paper for a penny and both would provide posi tive feedback to one another to get over this hump.

Yes, but as I explained, that is a direct result of the sellers having a st rangle hold on the buyer's feedback. eBay realized this was preventing gro wth of their end of the business. eBay needed new buyers more than they ne eded new sellers, so they came down on the side of the buyers and allowed t heir business to continue to grow.

Another thing they changed... or in reality, gave up on was the buyer agree ment that said you waive the right to dispute a charge with your credit car d agency. The credit card companies wisely rejected that idea so both part ies have the government mandated process to resolve disputes regardless of what eBay says.

could never afford to leave anyone negative feedback because they would the n leave you negative feedback which would blacklist you.

That's the part you don't seem to understand. Many sellers would not sell to you if you had too few positive feedbacks or had any negative feedback. You can claim this didn't happen, but I know it did. I think at one point I had to put a claim on my credit card when the seller would not put in a claim with UPS for a shipment that was either not delivered or was stolen f rom my porch. The buyer can't file with UPS for the claim and the seller r efused. I ended up with a negative feedback on my report and could not buy from a lot of vendors.

This thread was started because of the many, many crappy sellers offering b ogus flash drives. There are any number of crap sellers who offer inferior goods.

ack.

So your experience is everyone's experience?

at is no reason to be in denial.

?

Ok, but I was there and I experienced it. I was even told specifically tha t my bid was being rejected because I didn't have enough positive feedback.

--

  Rick C. 

  +-- Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  +-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

It depends a lot on which sellers you buy from.

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with no reason. I simply was pointing out that "no returns" doesn't mean you can't return something that isn't what you ordered or defective is othe rwise inappropriate.

You were taking the remark out of context. Whatever, it doesn't matter.

ot selling to anyone without a minimum amount of positive feedback and they would not give you feedback until you left them positive feedback.

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anything. I know for a fact that nearly every established vendor had the p olicy of "we will respond to your positive feedback with our positive feedb ack on you" when I started shopping on eBay.

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Lol! Isn't that the important part? So if a buyer isn't satisfied, they a re not entitled to positive feedback?

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Why is that the end of it? Ok, if that is the end of the transaction, ther e is no need for the seller to provide feedback since that is obvious and c an be automated.

Obviously eBay doesn't agree with you. I guess eBay rules the day, so our opinions don't matter.

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You ignore the part where many sellers wouldn't sell to you if you didn't h ave the "right" feedback. That means if you are unhappy and you can't fix the problem with the seller, then leave negative feedback, get negative fee dback, you are now blacklisted by many sellers. But I get that you are in denial this ever happened.

Ok, so I guess eBay had no reason to change the rules. Eh?

Yeah, I get that, but they did this because the previous system was being a bused by sellers.

How could it happen to you once you get a few buys under your belt? What d oes 20 years have to do with it? We've already talked about how this let t o the rule change some 10 years or so ago.

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aving negative feedback when the seller deserved it and is the reason for t he current system where the seller has much less power vis-a-vis feedback.

And eBay destroyed their business and drove all their sellers away by chang ing the rules so egregiously.

Talk about nonsense!

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fuses to sell to buyers without feedback or too much negative feedback.

You can't seem to maintain focus. Back then they didn't have all the megas ellers. Most sellers were smaller operations and there were a lot fewer of them. The majority would not sell to poor feedback buyers as I have indic ated, because they didn't want to deal with the relatively few problem buye rs. The new buyers were victims of this, but mostly the problem was buyers couldn't afford to be honest in their evaluations of sellers.

e when he sent the order signature required without telling me. I was not able to pick up the shipment at the post office in time and it was returned .

The PO is 20 miles from this house and I'm often not even here. You never know when the packages will be delivered so it's hard to plan for delivery. It is very remote with a driveway of half a mile, so packages left on the porch never go missing. So if it needs a signature, I need to know before hand so I can plan on picking it up when the PO is even open. Heck, they even close for lunch!

he eBay window of dispute. I think I also missed the window on the credit card.

Have you bought anything from Asia??? Yeah, it is not uncommon for the "fr ee" shipping to be quoted as a range which runs right up to the 60 day wind ow. But then you haven't believed anything I say so far, so why would you believe that?

hipping. He simply refused to discuss it with me any longer. So I did use the "shyster" technique to get another unit shipped on a new account and e nded up getting a refund for that one and didn't feel at all bad about it.

Once the package returned and I sent him an email saying I wanted him to re ship it, he simply stopped responding to the emails and never refunded a di me.

ugh for a 12 year old to understand.

Yes, today with the new rules things are level and sellers have to treat th eir customers right. That's why eBay is setting new records of business ev ery year. If it were unlevel the sellers would go away. eBay is not the o nly game in town.

n attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in c ontacting the police) I quit using them.

The lying wasn't even my problem, but I mispoke. It was actually a PalPay issue but they were a single company for a while. A friend asked me how to send a fax from my computer. I was helping and read the letter. It was p resented as a form for her to get her money back from from criminals on Pay Pal. When I read it I realized this was an affidavit to permanently waive her rights to have the transactions reversed, sent by the criminals to look like it came from PayPal.

I stopped the fax and called PayPal to report the fraud thinking they would want to get the cops involved. They told me to call the XYZ department at number ABC. I called and got passed to another number. Called and passed again. Finally they told me I need to talk to the Fraud department and ga ve me a number. Calling that number I recognized the voice as the person I originally spoke to who started me on the merry chase! She took the infor mation but never did anything about reporting it to the police. PayPal act ually tried to wear me out and make it impossible to locate the Fraud depar tment by lying to me!

I then realized what was happening. If it is reported to the police it wil l show up in the numbers. No report, no fraud. They can deny there were s o many reports of fraud.

was not as profitable as making the sellers be honest.

Yeah, but mostly because sellers were abusing the previous system.

eing able to use feedback to blacklist the bad sellers.

There's the problem. It's not level.

Feedback that can be dominated by sellers refusing to do business with low feedback buyers making it hard to get started and impossible to leave hones t feedback without being blacklisted.

Clearly you have this enormous bias about the issue and refuse to acknowled ge the reason why eBay changed their feedback system. Clearly they have no reason to dis the sellers unless there is a significant problem. I have e xplained the problem and you refuse to acknowledge it because you got your positive feedbacks without running into it. Ok, fine, but that doesn't mea n my experience is invalid or that I am making stuff up. I have no reason to do that.

I did a quick Google search and found a forum post from a seller in 2012 wh o wanted to not sell to low feedback buyers. I get it's hard being a selle r for many reasons. Perhaps selling is not what you are cut out for. Most of the responders to that post seemed pretty well able to make a profit wi thout worrying about the issue.

--

  Rick C. 

  +-+ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  +-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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Poor widdle you. Even by your own claims, you just had to give positive feedback to ten or so sellers for them to give you positive feedback. Wow, how difficult.

sell to "proven" buyers with significant positive feedback. I think 10 tr ansactions was the magic number.

I made no such admission and all sellers are open to getting ripped off, as are buyers.

Most sellers at the time would not sell to buyers without positive feedba ck to prevent trouble from "problem buyers".

BS. Been there 20 years ago and had no such problems.

not so many. There were even people who would work together to do bogus tr ansactions like sell a piece of paper for a penny and both would provide po sitive feedback to one another to get over this hump.

Poor widdle you. Can't find a seller who would sell? Can't find a seller outside Ebay? When you buy something outside Ebay, do they insist of positive feedback or do they just sell it to you? That alone is enough to prove your claim in mostly BS.

nly changed the feedback rules way later maybe ten plus

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strangle hold on the buyer's feedback.

The seller had no more strangle hold on the buyer than the other way around.

eBay realized this was preventing growth of their end of the business. eB ay needed new buyers more than they needed new sellers, so they came down o n the side of the buyers and allowed their business to continue to grow.

eement that said you waive the right to dispute a charge with your credit c ard agency. The credit card companies wisely rejected that idea so both pa rties have the government mandated process to resolve disputes regardless o f what eBay says.

d could never afford to leave anyone negative feedback because they would t hen leave you negative feedback which would blacklist you.

l to you if you had too few positive feedbacks or had any negative feedback .

Poor widdle you. I was there 20 years ago, had ZERO experiences like that starting from day one. I suspect the truth is you had BAD feedback.

You can claim this didn't happen, but I know it did. I think at one poin t I had to put a claim on my credit card when the seller would not put in a claim with UPS for a shipment that was either not delivered or was stolen from my porch. The buyer can't file with UPS for the claim and the seller refused. I ended up with a negative feedback on my report and could not bu y from a lot of vendors.

Again, out of HUNDREDS of transactions on Ebay, I've had just a few that were problems at all.

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bogus flash drives. There are any number of crap sellers who offer inferi or goods.

That's not true either. It was started by one guy bitching, who bought from an obvious shyster.

dback.

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Well, that's what you're claiming! Simple fact is that when both buyers and sellers can leave feedback it's fair and level. Why should shyster buyers be hidden?

Well, that's true too. Like the OP who bought something from a seller with all the warning signs of being a fraud.

Ah, finally the real issue. Because when it was the other way, where selle rs could blackmail buyers, the size of the market was much smaller. eBay i n their wisdom realized if they wanted to grow they had to protect buyers a t the expense of sellers, just like store front businesses. If you buy som ething from Walmart they simply will accept it back, no questions, you don' t even need a receipt in my experience. Do they lose money on fraudulent r eturns, yes. Do they make more money this way from more sales, yes. Win-w in.

Is that clear enough for you?

--

  Rick C. 

  ++- Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  ++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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gs with no reason. I simply was pointing out that "no returns" doesn't mea n you can't return something that isn't what you ordered or defective is ot herwise inappropriate.

Taking what remark out of context? Not the remark I responded to. The cla im was made that you can return *anything* on Ebay. And that's not true, if you're honest at least. Many sales are *no returns*. And obviously it does matter because here you are, back again even after I clearly explained it 3 times now.

not selling to anyone without a minimum amount of positive feedback and th ey would not give you feedback until you left them positive feedback.

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g anything. I know for a fact that nearly every established vendor had the policy of "we will respond to your positive feedback with our positive fee dback on you" when I started shopping on eBay.

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are not entitled to positive feedback?

No, just buying it is one, very minimal part of the WHOLE transaction. Just because you bought and paid for it, the seller had no idea if you're a shyster. Like you were when you admitted here you set up another Ebay account to defraud a seller! A buyer has always been allowed to leave feedback, positive or negative.

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ere is no need for the seller to provide feedback since that is obvious and can be automated.

Geez. How does a BUYER indicate that they are satisfied with the transacti on other than providing positive feedback for the seller?

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r opinions don't matter.

That's about all you are right about. Ebay favors buyers over sellers, I said that long ago.

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have the "right" feedback.

Poor widdle you. I've been on Ebay 20 years, NEVER had that happen. And if they won't, so what? Can't find another seller who would? Can't take you business outside Ebay? And it's mostly BS, because sellers want to SE LL. If you buy something from someone selling online outside of Ebay, do they require some kind of certification, positive feedback or do they just SELL? And many of those same sellers are on Ebay.

That means if you are unhappy and you can't fix the problem with the selle r, then leave negative feedback, get negative feedback, you are now blackli sted by many sellers. But I get that you are in denial this ever happened.

Maybe you got the negative feedback because you deserved it, like where you admitted setting up another account on Ebay to defraud a seller.

abused by sellers.

Ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. Why would sellers want to piss off thei r buyers? They want customers, they want to sell.

does 20 years have to do with it? We've already talked about how this let to the rule change some 10 years or so ago.

Because you claimed I must be new to Ebay, that's why.

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leaving negative feedback when the seller deserved it and is the reason for the current system where the seller has much less power vis-a-vis feedback .

nging the rules so egregiously.

They didn't drive all the sellers away because Ebay is powerful, there is no direct alternative.

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refuses to sell to buyers without feedback or too much negative feedback.

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asellers. Most sellers were smaller operations and there were a lot fewer of them. The majority would not sell to poor feedback buyers as I have ind icated, because they didn't want to deal with the relatively few problem bu yers. The new buyers were victims of this, but mostly the problem was buye rs couldn't afford to be honest in their evaluations of sellers.

Imagine that! Sellers didn't want to sell to buyers with bad feedback! How outrageous. You sound like the typical snowflake lib that thinks all businesses, anyone out to make a profit, are all evil. And then adjust the rules so they protect YOUR rights, screw everyone else.

ice when he sent the order signature required without telling me. I was no t able to pick up the shipment at the post office in time and it was return ed.

r know when the packages will be delivered so it's hard to plan for deliver y.

BS. The post office leaves a delivery notice and it has a spot where you can indicate when you will be there to receive it and they will redeliver i t. And even if it's 20 miles away, BFD, butch up. YOU made the choice to live there.

It is very remote with a driveway of half a mile, so packages left on the porch never go missing. So if it needs a signature, I need to know before hand so I can plan on picking it up when the PO is even open. Heck, they even close for lunch!

Oh my, what an insurmountable obstacle for a snowflake.

the eBay window of dispute. I think I also missed the window on the credi t card.

free" shipping to be quoted as a range which runs right up to the 60 day wi ndow. But then you haven't believed anything I say so far, so why would yo u believe that?

shipping. He simply refused to discuss it with me any longer. So I did u se the "shyster" technique to get another unit shipped on a new account and ended up getting a refund for that one and didn't feel at all bad about it .

The right thing to do was simply open a dispute on Ebay, withing the time limit. Geez, how hard is that?

?

reship it, he simply stopped responding to the emails and never refunded a dime.

nough for a 12 year old to understand.

.

their customers right.

That's BS, it's not level when sellers can't leave negative feedback for BUYERS who are shysters.

That's why eBay is setting new records of business every year. If it wer e unlevel the sellers would go away. eBay is not the only game in town.

an attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in contacting the police) I quit using them.

y issue but they were a single company for a while. A friend asked me how to send a fax from my computer. I was helping and read the letter. It was presented as a form for her to get her money back from from criminals on P ayPal. When I read it I realized this was an affidavit to permanently waiv e her rights to have the transactions reversed, sent by the criminals to lo ok like it came from PayPal.

ld want to get the cops involved. They told me to call the XYZ department at number ABC. I called and got passed to another number. Called and pass ed again. Finally they told me I need to talk to the Fraud department and gave me a number. Calling that number I recognized the voice as the person I originally spoke to who started me on the merry chase! She took the inf ormation but never did anything about reporting it to the police. PayPal a ctually tried to wear me out and make it impossible to locate the Fraud dep artment by lying to me!

ill show up in the numbers. No report, no fraud. They can deny there were so many reports of fraud.

er was not as profitable as making the sellers be honest.

s.

being able to use feedback to blacklist the bad sellers.

w feedback buyers making it hard to get started and impossible to leave hon est feedback without being blacklisted.

Yeah, poor widdle you. All those sellers on Ebay, and none would sell to you.

edge the reason why eBay changed their feedback system. Clearly they have no reason to dis the sellers unless there is a significant problem.

I have explained the problem and you refuse to acknowledge it because you got your positive feedbacks without running into it.

Oh, BS, BS, BS. Any dope could always get easy positive feedback on Ebay. You buy it, leave positive feedback, the seller leaves you positive feedbac k. It worked for me 20 years ago, it still works.

Ok, fine, but that doesn't mean my experience is invalid or that I am maki ng stuff up. I have no reason to do that.

who wanted to not sell to low feedback buyers.

Woooah! Imagine that! Poor widdle you, can't find another seller somewher e that would?

rs

lers could blackmail buyers, the size of the market was much smaller. eBay in their wisdom realized if they wanted to grow they had to protect buyers at the expense of sellers, just like store front businesses. If you buy s omething from Walmart they simply will accept it back, no questions, you do n't even need a receipt in my experience. Do they lose money on fraudulent returns, yes. Do they make more money this way from more sales, yes. Win

-win.

What's clear to me is that you admitted here to committing fraud on Ebay to get even for something that you at least partially created yourself, because you wouldn't go to the post office to sign for a delivery. So, it;s likely you're one of the buyers that gets negative feedback. And Ebay doesn't care, they are in it to make money, they don't care about fairness, they figured it was better for their business to favor buyers over seller. Here's some examples of shyster BUYERS on Ebay for you:

I had a Vanson leather motorcycle jacket for sale for $350 plus $15 for shipping. It was described as used, only worn a few times, in excellent condition, no defects. The pictures reflected that. It was up for sale for about a month, some bitch from San Francisco messages me and asks if I will do a "PayPal sale" for less. So, already she's trying to screw Ebay by trying to get me to take the sale outside of Ebay, which is a MAJOR violation of Ebay rules. I said no, but I would reduce the price to $325. So, she buys it, I ship it. What does she do, she gets it them files an item not as described complaint, lying, saying that it smells of smoke and mold and it's covered in cat hair! Total lie, it's been hanging in a closet here, no one smokes, no cat, it smells like a leather jacket. Rather than spend time and BS trying to do anything, I just took it back and I wound up eating $30 for shipping both ways. I did nothing to it, just put it back up on Ebay with the same exact listing and a few weeks later sold it to a buyer in Chicago with no problem s.

Another time, I sold a used throttle cable for a Honda Mower for $25. A guy buys it, then complains that it arrived kinked and was no good. I tell him OK, I shipped it by priority mail, so it's insured. Please send me pics of the packaging and the cable so I can file an insurance claim. Well, now he's mad. He says screw you, I just want my money back! I keep telling him, I didn't damage it, it's insured, I'm entitled to file a claim to get my money. He tells me it's on his mower and he doesn't want to take it off! Now, what kind of asshole would receive a cable that's kinked and put it on, instead of emailing the seller right away? He said screw you, I'll just give you negative feedback. I said, if you want, go file a complaint with Ebay, get them involved. This BS went back and forth for days, lots of emails. Finally, he sent pics of the cable. I immediately sent him a refund, filed the insurance claim and got my money.

Now, why shouldn't I be able to leave negative feedback for those two, so that other sellers can see it? And buyers knowing that they can get negative feedback, would be less likely to try to screw sellers. As it is, they know they can pull this kind of BS without consequence, except that it does raise prices for all buyers, because sellers have to make up for it. Not only should you be able to see a buyer's real feedback, but you should also be able to see their RETURN rate, Ebay complaint rate, etc. In the case of the jacket scammer, I did file an Ebay complaint, including pointing out that she tried to screw Ebay too, but I expect it went right into the bit bucket.