128 bit addressing for harddisk/block addressing.

(Time to fire up your embedded compilers and write some new API code ! ;))

I will share with you what I have learned so far from excursion into the ms

-dos age and "retro-gaming" and such:

Addressing limitations are super annoying in all kinds of ways:

  1. 2GB Harddisk/partition size limitations.
  2. 16 bit memory Memory limitations.
  3. 64 MB ram limitations (though have not yet run into this for real)>

The most annoying one was limitation in VMWare Workstation 8 not supporting usb mass storage devices large than 2 Terrabytes.

My conclusion for now is we must not repeat the mistakes of the past and pr epare for the future.

40 Years from now harddisks bigger than 16 exabytes might exist for consume rs and then when trying to virtualize 64 bit windows it will becoming annoy ing again if it can't be done because the software does not support 128 bit block addressing.

For this reason my recommendation to VM Ware is to create a 128 bit API, po ssibly a plugin system, so that in the future a driver/plug in can be writt en to make VM Ware work with 128 bit block addressing so it can read/write/ find/store more data on futuristics harddisk.

To test this API, random data can be generated for specific offsets. The ra ndseed can be set to the offset/block number to allows generate the same da ta for verification purposes for example.

This plug-in should be build into VM Ware sooner then later.

Another one of my concerns is NTFS of Microsoft Windows. It is as far as I know 64 bit limited.

My drives are already 4 TB, if I add them up could be as much as 10 TB or e ven 16 TB.

That means at least 40 bits, or 44 bits or so.

So NTFS is 20 bits away before it runs into limitations.

Harddisks may grow at a different rate than Moore's Law.

However there is a new kid in town "SSD" and such and they are created with transistors and their growth rate may be much higher than harddisks the co ming years.

I don't know exact data but I will use both based on my own experience:

1986 ? C64, 64 KB of data on floppy 1992 ? MS-DOS/PC 80486 2.0 MB on floppy, Seagate, Capacity: 120 MB on hardd isk 1996 ? Pentium 166, Quantum Fireball 3.5 TM, Capacity: 2 GB on harddisk. 1999 ? Pentium III 450 MHZ, Harddisk: 16 GB (for speed dumb) and later 120 GB.(2004) 2006 DreamPC AMD X2 3800+ Harddisks: 512 GB (2006) and, 2 TB (2011) 2 TB (2 019). 2 TB (2020)

Now: 2020, 4 TB on usb mass storage device.

So some significant stagnation on harddisk front over last 14 years.

However there is also "speak" of 100 TB SSD coming from Samsung, 2018 or so .

Going to put this roughly in an ASCII chart ;)

100 TB 10 TB AMD X2 AMD X2 1 TB AMD X2 100 GB PIII 10 GB PIII 1 GB P166 100 MB 80486 10 MB 1 MB FLOPPY 100 KB C64 1985 - 1990 - 1995 - 2000 - 2005 - 2010 - 2015 - 2020

I think from this chart it can be seen that harddisk capacity is slowing do wn.

While flash/sd/ssd capacity is not shown in this chart it is probably rampi ng up.

One of the reasons of the slow down of harddisk capacity might also have to do with BIOS limitations of old systems. I purchased a 2 TB harddisk in 20

20, just so I could fit it into DreamPC/AMD X2 3800+ if I need that capacit y to maybe re-install windows 7 x64 edition with platform update. So far I have not done that yet, but did it install it on USB stick to see what it w ould be like and it's quite pleasing to do that. Geforce Now also works on it which is quite weird to game on the cloud.

Anyway it's hard to say what the exact growth rate is there are probably tw o;

Harddisk growth rate. It think the chart does show quite nicely it's roughl y 10x each 5 years.

SSD growth rate. For now my guess is this will follow Moore's Law. Roughly double capacity each 1.5 years.

So let's calculate when NTFS will run out of bits for consumers/home users like me ! ;)

It's either the SSD rate which would mean 20x1.5 = 25 years.

or

The harddisk rate which would mean 20 bits left which is 1000x1000.

So log(1.000.000) = 6 x 5 = 30 years.

So either way in roughly 30 years NTFS will not be sufficient anymore.

CPU/Software/Compiler/Assembler/Linker/Debugger/Drivers/Operating System/GU I/File System/BIOS/EUFI/Protocols/Sata?

A lot of stuff will need to change to be able to support 128 bit harddisks if growth of capacity continues.

Also hundreds of years from now space will become very important for IT to store capacity in space =D

And then thousands of years from now we will be dumping computers in space that are not dragged along by the sun and we will communicate with them via quantum communications =D

So some investments into space elevator, space ships and space technology w ill also become important for IT sector =D

I feel slightly at uneasy that Windows 10 does not yet have a NTFS 128 bit file system.

Bye, Skybuck.

Reply to
skybuck2000
Loading thread data ...

snip. Why tell us the wholly obvious?

Reply to
tabbypurr

ting usb mass storage devices large than 2 Terrabytes.

d prepare for the future.

sumers and then when trying to virtualize 64 bit windows it will becoming a nnoying again if it can't be done because the software does not support 128 bit block addressing.

Isn't it obvious lol.

To prevent it from becoming a problem.

If we want to prevent it from becoming a problem, we have to build it (128 bit addressing) in, the sooner the better.

It doesn't even have to function, just some hook/api to plug into in the fu ture.

See it as a future extension, future readyness ! ;)

Example of slight frustration:

VM Work Station 8 cannot host 64 bit operating system, that is somewhat und erstandable. It can also not use 2+ TB drives.

VK Work Station 15 can host 64 bit operating systems, and probably 2+ TB dr ives but requires newer processors from 2012 and beyond.

Thus this software is severely limited and won't run on older 64 bit proces sors. This grows the list of limitations and limited capabilities, figuring this out 30 years from now which software can and which software can't run on 64 bit operating systems, 64 bit hardware, 64 bit processors could get annoyi ng. Depends on the situations. On the latest and greatest hardware most wil l probably work if it's backwards compatible, however also many problems co uld occur if it exceeds speeds or other limitations, also software in the f uture may be riddled with race conditions, which will only show up on slow systems, strange but might be true ! ;) :)

Prepare yourself ! =D Mortal Kombat ! =D

Bye, Skybuck.

Reply to
skybuck2000

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

You are a goddamned idiot. A computer science total retard.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

NOT a hard disk, you DUMBFUCK.

First PC hard drive was 10MB on an XT.

You are a joke, boy.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Because he is a computer science dipshit.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

HAHA, You are funny.

The C64 did not have any official harddisk in that time I think.

So this was the next best thing and thus is a somewhat valid usage for the chart.

This is simply what most C64 users had to deal with ! ;)

Bye, Skybuck =D

Reply to
skybuck2000

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

You don't bark about hard drives then spew crap about what your console had... that wasn't a hard drive. D'oh!

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

try sci.electronics.basics. On this ng it's beyond obvious.

Reply to
tabbypurr

I don't think that is very likely. I recently installed NVMe drives (Samsung 970 PRO 512 Gbyte) in a few machines that don't have any BIOS support for NVMe. As long as you don't try to boot from them, they "just work", so I boot from a USB dongle in one system and a small SSD in others and then run the operating system and everything else from the NVMe drive. You should try it as it will give a substantial performance boost over ordinary SSD drives. Adapters that allow M.2 NVMe drives to be installed in a spare PCIe slot are very cheap. My experience is with Linux (CentOS 7) but I understand that Windows 10 plays nicely with NVMe as well even without BIOS support.

John

Reply to
jrwalliker

As there are approximatly 10^80 atoms in the universe, to account for every one you need approx 270 bits. To make things totally future proof I suggest you go for a 512 bit system.

Reply to
Andy Bennet

GO with 1024-bit processing.

Reply to
Robert Baer

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