Which uController to learn?

8051 family. You can't keep a good chip down. It's been going since 1981 IIRC. NXP's (formerly Philips) variants do all sorts of useful stuff with the 8051 core plus their RAM is static now so you can reduce the clock to zero to save power. And the 8051 is multi-sourced !

PICs are indifferently documented so I've heard. I also heard something about dodgy compilers.

Graham

The answer is strongly application dependent.

Ian

I think the AVR butterfly is a good starting point. Unfortunately the ICSP feature is quite picky with regards to voltage.

I'd start with lurking the usergroups, such as 8052.com and avrfreaks, dont't know about a group for the MSP430. See what they are doing, then pic(k) one. Lots of cheap eval boards. Some of the ARM micros look amazing, but beyond my comprehension

Comp.arch.embedded NG usually has a "my micro is better than your micro" thread going. Also checkout GCC compilers, Winavr etc. as you seem to be qualified for the dreaded makefile.

And be sure to practice your soldering skills/ interfacing techniques, this is very important compared with the Windoze World

martin

AVR, M68HC, PIC, pick either one, find a C compiler, go with it, some chips have free compiler out there, like winavr for avr.

should provide a few pointers Don...

--
Don McKenzie
E-Mail Contact Page:               http://www.dontronics.com/e-mail.html

Crystal clear, super bright OLED LCD (128x128) for your microcontroller.
Simple serial RX/TX interface. Many memory sizes.
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/product.php?productid=16460

No More Damn Spam: http://www.wizard-of-oz.com

Thanks for your comments, Martin.

That's really why I'm interested in getting into the u-controller world. To interface hardware to the "real world".

Soldering iron warmed up and at the ready...

--
John English

You can't really say what one is 'best' - it depends on what you really want to do.

Even with PICs it's hard to say which is best - from tiny 8 pin controllers to massive 44 pin processing beasts with hundreds in between.

PIC assembly is tiresome at the least. The instruction set is tiny which means that they take considerably more coding than, say, x86 assembly.

Atmel micros are becoming popular too - though I haven't had any experience with them.

Depending on what you want, you may look at *gasp* Basic Stamps, made by Parralax (sp?) if you know BASIC well - just don't count on amazing performance.

Oh gawd. The biggest problem I've seen with PIC documentation is that people won't read it. Almost every quirk and pitfall now gets fancy shaded background balloons complete with code examples.

The only "dodgy" compiler I ever dealt with was SDCC for the 8052, what a POS. It may be better now, but a few years ago it sucked bad. Of course I don't even bother trying to use C on a PIC, it's just not desiged for it. The 18Fs are different though, they do C ok. FWICT, everyone seems happy with Microchip's ever-lasting "trial" C compiler for the 18Fs.

Multisourced, that's another misrepresentation. For the most part, chips from different vendors are just similar archetectures, not "compatible" chips insofar as actually being able to drop one in place of another. Not to mention how vastly incompatible the code internals are for anything but the most basic peripherals.

But that's just my opinion. ;-)

Still looking into the former (many decent PS models coming out of Asia, recently); got a couple of scopes.

Thanks,

--
John English

"John E." schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...

I often point to

for an intro in PIC micro's.

If you have experience in 68000 then AVR may suit you better.

petrus bitbyter

PIC and Atmel AVR battle it out for the top spot in the entry level market, you will get tons of beginner support (hardware, software, and sample code) for either platform, arguably more than any other platfrom.

Which is the "best" is dependant upon your application. For example, if you do *really* low power stuff then the MSP430 series is very popular. If you want seamless migration from Flash to OTP to Mask ROM then PIC might be the way to go. If you want fast processing with a reasonable number of options then AVR might be the best bet. The list is endless...

For starting out, stick with AVR or PIC, and use a high level language like C. Both platforms have free C compiler suites, but IMHO the AVR GNU compiler is a PITA to get up and running, and the worst problem you can have when starting out is having to fight your tools. Also, I think the AVR STK500 programmer is (or was) a complete dog, horrible for a beginner. PICs have their quirks too, but I had a *lot* more trouble when starting out with the AVR's. But no doubt the AVR crowd will shoot me down in flames...

The PIC 18 series C compiler is essentially free from Microchip, and that combined with an MPLAB compatible programmer would be a very good and powerful starting platform if you don't want to play with the kiddie kits. However there are tons of good PIC starter kits and demo boards around, just look at the Farnell catalog or any of the multitude of PIC supplier website for starters.

Dave.

If you use a good C compiler like HI-TECH PIC-C then it works just fine on any 16series (or even smaller) PIC. You can do heaps with C on only 1K memory devices with a good compiler.

Yeah, very few limitations by the looks of it. I don't know why they don't just make it free and be done with it. It would put a lot of the other tool companies noses out of joint though I guess...

Dave.

For a no frills easy to understand and get going, I'd say 8051 series. The Dallas 89c450 and Atmel 89c51ED2 both have hardware boot loaders so you can get code into them very quickly and see whats going on with your code. I hate C

I've never used it, but I've heard good things about it. I always use assembler on the PIC. I've used the Keil compiler on the 8052, sweet. It really generates dense code. Never done anything with an 18F yet, but I plan to whenever I need that much horsepower. I have to admit that there have been times that I've longed to be writing something for the PIC in other than assembler.

I'll have to order some 18Fs and give it a try. I got my Rigol scope today. Oh man this is just way too cool. :-)))

Well, to be fair, I didn't ask for "best". That's always a dead-end (or open-end) discussion.

I'm really interested in my options for assembly programming for interfacing with sensors, switches, etc., and controlling relays, LEDs, maybe the odd

7-segment or serial display. I don't think I'll need networking, or such, nor that I'll get back into learning a high-level language (never tackled 'C' - I think that would be a show-stopper, re. getting started with u-controllers).

So, I guess I'm asking for the the product line with the most supporting (good) documentation and examples and which has the potential for easing me toward my goal (ie, my previous para.) with the least hair-pulling.

Thanks,

--
John English

Eh ?

The various 8051 clones from various manufacturers are completely compatible in every respect. That's one of the joys of the part. Such changes as have been made are backwardly compatible even with no code change too.

Graham

You can also clock an Avr slowly and runs on uW. The butterfly runs in stand-by mode for months on a single button cell.

But I would not call an Avr fast, not comparing to an Arm. I have a 20MHz(50 Mhz max) Arm talking to a 8Mhz(16MHz max) Avr. The Arm is around 5 to 10 times faster than the Avr.

They are roughly the same size, cost and complexity.

snip

years ago I was given a few lines or so of C for an 8051, that has never failed me. But then I'm not a real programmer, most of my crap is just a few switch statements,

Boil a FET Nuke a motor, LCD Prompt" do you need fries with that" etc.

but good enuff for me, does the job. Maybe I should go and have another look at it?

grasshopper, over and out

martin