Offshore software development outsourcing

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Ogie

In the US, for $10 per hour, you can eat, or live indoors but not both.

We need to start applying duties and tariffs to this stuff.

It annoys me that I cannot get small runs of PC boards made here in the US as cheaply, or as easily, as I can get them made by Olimex in Bulgaria; yet they can ship to the US duty and tax free.

If anyone knows of a US PC house that provides the level of quality and service of Olimex, I would like to know about it so I can switch.

-Chuck

Why yes, I do.

But I also like having a better than a third world standard of living. The only way I can compete against $10/hour folks in Eastern block countries is in quality of service. But their quality of service is rapidly improving, and it is really cutting into my business.

There is a rather big gulf between the standard of living they can earn for $10 per hour in Belarus, and what I can get for $10 per hour in the US. They can live like the professional engineers that they are for that money in Belarus. I would have to live in a group house, like a checker at Walmart.

We need to level the playing field, but I am not willing to do it by lowering the standard of living I have earned through my very hard work.

The guys in Belarus either need to start charging $70/hr, or we need to levy $60/hour in duties and tariffs.

I refuse to get a job where I have to say, "Do you want fries with that?"

-Chuck Harris

What do you have against free trade republicans?

Looks like the neocons are outsourcing Hillery's new helicopters (Marine one fleet of 23) too.

"Lockheed Martin team awarded Marine One contract" [ The overall contract, worth $6.1 billion, consists of $3.6 billion for the fleet of helicopters and $2.5 billion for research and development. The Lockheed team will receive $1.7 billion initially to begin manufacturing the 23 helicopters, which are to be completed in

2009. ]

Is Lockheed Martin well known for their quality helicopters? Naturally, much of it will be outsourced by the neocons .....

How much per at $6.1 billion/23 helicopters? Why does she need 23?

Can't she take the bus instead?

--
Cliff

Fascinating! The NAFTA and GATT laws that made this possible were the spawn of the Clinton administration. I have heard Bubba called a lot of things, but never a republican.

Hillary won't be getting one. They are part of the presidential fleet.

She may run for president in 2008, but she won't win.

-Chuck

But, you see, old chap, being forced to pay $70/hour for $5 or $10/work would really cut into the business of others. That's why, for example, candy manufacturers have abandoned the US in droves- they can't get sugar (their main ingredient) at anything close to world price, yet they have to compete directly against those who can. Erecting trade walls around a country is believed to cause really serious problems in the long run. Cutting you loose is just the lesser of two evils.

Probably true.

Right, so you need to do something else if you're competing directly with $0.50/hour, $10/hour or $20/hour labor. Note that the $10/hour is their "shop rate", the actual workers wouldn't make that princely sum.

I don't think that's going to happen (barring disaster). The protectionist types in both US parties are nowhere near power. It's like climate change or someone starting a war, or massive deficits and currency devaluation- you can try to stop it, but in the end the forces are too large, and you just have to adapt and live with it (and hopefully prosper). Wherever there is such change and upheaval there are also massive opportunities somewhere.

You can always clean plugged toilets. we have a neighbor who does that (well, sort of, industrially), and he looks to be every bit as affluent, and works more limited hours, takes long exotic vacations etc. At least until telepresence robots operated from Bangalore or Chengdu come along.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it\'s the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

[snip]

Reported here in the UK as an Augusta/Westland helicopter.

The twirly bits (rotors,etc) by Westland in the UK, and the rest by Augusta in Italy.

--
Tony Williams.

No doubt, but as I recall, you too are engaged in the engineering field. What do you plan to do to steel yourself from forced retirement?

Every single field I can think of that is technical in nature is being attacked by current trade and immigration policies.

I don't think plunging toilets is going to do it, because we have more than enough resident aliens in this country that are willing to do that for less money than your friend.

It strikes me that the only hope is for the US dollar to be come so worthless that we cannot afford to buy $10 per hour Belarus labor, and will have to settle for $100 per hour US labor.

-Chuck Harris

Me? I'm reasonably busy with interesting real design work at the moment. Some of the instrumentation and other specialized design requires a lot of background knowledge that isn't fast or cheap for newcomers to acquire. But I'm also doing other things... perhaps actually facilitating in a small way (so far) the seismic changes that are occurring in the business by building bridges between continents and cultures. Plus, I won't have to worry about that many more decades into the future, as an 18-year-old would. That's without even doing the 2nd career thing.

OTOH, my young son is learning Chinese.

Yet some people are making metric scads of money, and corporate profits continue to do well. The policies you speak of do not harm profits, they actually enable higher profits. To the extent we all own bits of companies, this helps all of us.

At least the resident alien has to pay the same prices as you do for services and stuff. Pays at least some taxes. And is exposed to similar societal pressures to send kids to good schools and own an SUV or whatever.

Fortunately, people don't make decisions on hiring engineering labor or consultants based solely on price per hour. I like doing fixed-price quotes.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it\'s the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Don't you just love capitalism !!!

Simon

Possibly so, but it is said that the first person to live to be 1000 years old is 60 years old today.

I used to think the security devices I designed for the US Army were not readily outsourced, but of late I find that more and more of that kind of work is getting done to spec in former soviet bloc countries.

So don't be real surprised when they come for your job. They will.

The only folk making metric scads of money are those that already had metric scads of money. The US economy is stratisfying into the rich and the poor. The middle is mostly getting shoved down.

No, he doesn't. Typically, they don't file for tax refunds, so in that way they are contributing more than their fair share, but also typically they live 5 or 6 families to a single family home. As a result, the local property taxes are getting short changed. In Maryland, the property taxes pay for the schools and public services. In my county, we have just had all of our houses appraised at a 65% higher value.

Don't worry, they will beat your fixed price quotes by a similar margin. I have already felt the sting.

-Chuck

"to turn $100 into $110 is work, but to turn $100 million into $110 million? that's inevitable".

-- Edgar Bronfman

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it\'s the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Ah, well in that case hire me. I'll do it for my standard rate of $50 U.S./hr.

In which case you will need to pay even more for your products designed by engineers.

That might be the result...

Dave

The email address used for sending these postings is not valid. All replies to the group please.

Malaysia? Nice country.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it\'s the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Some neocons been whispering in your ear?

Bush-I did the first NAFTA, Bush-II expanded it.

"President Bush signed the NAFTA agreement on December 17, 1992" "George W. Bush wants to expand NAFTA. He currently is negotiating a Free Trade Area of the Americas agreement that will expand NAFTA to 34 Central and South American countries as soon as 2005."

Etc., etc., etc.

Bush-II is the one wanting to import slave labor at very low wages from Mexico as well.

Sadly, Clinton was a conservative.

Exactly my point .

Looke like the neocons will have worn out the old fleet (going on all those taxpayer-paid vacations) so she will need a new one.

--
Cliff

Most have moved to Canada where they can get Cuban sugar. They still sell the candy in the US.

--
Cliff

If you make over US$ 200,000 per year you got a huge tax cut though. Everyone else will happliy pay for it with their US$ 8/Hr jobs and higher prices for energy, food & basic housing & local tax hikes. Unless the Mexicans get their jobs. They already make too much, right?

--
Cliff

And India & China are beginning to do quite nicely (in some sectors) with it.

OTOH It can be quite an ugly thing ..... do you really want the roads sold off or the robber barons & company towns & stores back?

--
Cliff