Free electronics simulation software

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There is a free electronics circuit simulator available called
CircuitLogix.  Check it out.  It is quite amazing.  The website for
the free electronics simulation software is www.CircuitLogix.com.

Carl


Re: Free electronics simulation software


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Hello Carl,

You forgot to mention that it is only licensed for students
or have I wrongly understood their license agreement?

Best regards,
Helmut



Re: Free electronics simulation software


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Hi Helmut,

As I understand it, they are taking a very liberal approach to the
term "student".  If you are using it at home or in the office for your
own purposes (ie self-study) it is no problem to download it.

Carl


Re: Free electronics simulation software



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Hello Carl,
the text below is the original text from their webpage.
It's very restrictive. They not only insist on on beeing a student,
they also want the name of your teacher.
I wonder what you have read there.
Maybe my English is too bad to understand that. :-)

Best regards,
Helmut

---
The student version of CircuitLogix electronics lab simulation is available
free of charge to any student studying electronics through an educational
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Free electronics simulation software


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They also specifically disallow schools to deploy it, e.g., network wide!

With their current restrictions, I can't see anyone who *knows* about, e.g.,
LTSpice, actually using their product.



Re: Free electronics simulation software


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Hi Joel,

LTSpice is pretty good for analog simulation, but CircuitLogix
provides both analog and digital simulation.

Carl


Re: Free electronics simulation software


: LTSpice is pretty good for analog simulation, but CircuitLogix
: provides both analog and digital simulation.

Boy!  It looks like a "pile on Carl" thread!  Somewhat deserved, too,
since he's obviously a shill for CircuitL*gix.

LTSpice does some digital simulation also, much more than normal
SPICE.  I'll let the champions of LTSpice elaborate on this point.

My question about CircuitL*gix is:  what type of digitial simulation?
Can it read Verilog or VHDL netlists and do so-simulation with SPICE
netlists?  Or does it just have a few "digial" circuit elements
("and", "or", "not", a DFF, and a counter or two)?  If it's the
latter, then it does about the same thing as LTSpice (or less).
Nothing to get excited about.

If it's the former (i.e. Verilog/VHDL), then is that available in the
freebie student edition?

And what about handling Verilog-AMS?  There are so many free SPICE
simulators out there nowadays (both open and closed source) that
CircuitL*gix seems like a "me too" product about 5 years late to the
party unless it can handle Verilog-AMS, or do something similarly
novel.

Stuart

Re: Free electronics simulation software


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Hi guys,

Well, I give up.  Accusing me of being a shill for CircuitLogix is too
much.  To answer your question, Stuart, yes it does do co-simulation
with SPICE and it can read VHDL.

Carl

p.s.  I am a design engineer with Motorola and I also work as an
adjunct professor at Texas A&M.  I could care less about whether you
download a free version of CircuitLogix, I was more interested in
sharing some good news about free simulation.  Obviously, I shouldn't
have bothered.


Re: Free electronics simulation software



: Well, I give up.  Accusing me of being a shill for CircuitLogix is too
: much.  

Well, no offense intended.  Sorry!

: p.s.  I am a design engineer with Motorola and I also work as an
: adjunct professor at Texas A&M.  

Bully for you!

: I could care less about whether you
: download a free version of CircuitLogix, I was more interested in
: sharing some good news about free simulation.  Obviously, I shouldn't
: have bothered.

We are leery of folks posting "look at this great new free
tool" messages here since free tools from commerical vendors usually
have strings attached [1].  The classic examples are ExpressPCB, which
offers free design/layout software, but locks you into a proprietary
output file format usable only at ExpressPCB; and Eagle, whose free
version is wildly popular with students, but is essentially crippled
since it limits you to two layers and a fairly small board area.  Once
you bump up against the limits of the freebie Eagle, you've got to pay
for the full-up version [2].

FWIW, there are lots of freebie and open-source simulators of various
flavors out there, including:  

LTSpice -- closed source SPICE with integrated schematic capture.
           Totally rocks!
           http://www.linear.com/designtools/software /

ngspice -- open source SPICE 3f5.  Still uses a CLI, and not as
           optimized as LTSpice, but it works.
           http://ngspice.sourceforge.net/

GnuCap --  Analog simulator with internal engine a generation or two
           ahead of regular SPICE.  Open source.  
           Can do event-driven simulation as
           well as continuous time.  Still uses CLI, and can read
           SPICE netlists (with some caveats).
           http://www.gnucap.org /

QUCS --    A spiffy new GUI-based simulation environment which claims
           to do all kinds of simulation.  Open source.  
           Incorporates schematic
           capture front end.  I believe they have some work to do
           until it's complete.
           http://qucs.sourceforge.net/

Icarus Verilog --
           Excellent Verilog open-source simulator run from the
           command line.  Used with GTKWave for waveform viewing, it's
           a powerful tool for Verilog design.
           http://icarus.com/eda/verilog /
           http://home.nc.rr.com/gtkwave /

Alliance VHDL --
           French university project providing a chip design tool
           suite.  Includes VHDL simulator.  I've never used it so
           I know very little about it.
           http://www-asim.lip6.fr/recherche/alliance //

TkGate --  GUI based logic simulator.  More of an eductional tool than
           a professional design tool, but it's cool nonetheless.
           Open-source.  
           http://www.tkgate.org /

PSpice --  Years ago PSpice 6.x from MicroSim was downloadable off the
           web for free.  Is it still around?

Tina --    TI's simulation program.  Version 7 is a free download.  Is
           it some kind of "me too" response to LTSpice?  I haven't
           used it.
           http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/tina-ti.html

Besides these, there's also MyHDL, PyHDL, FreeHDL, regular Spice3f5,
and plenty of other free simulators out there available on the
web.  And don't get me started on schematic capture, layout tools,
or chip design editors!

You can follow the open-source EDA tool space here:

http://www.opencollector.org /

As you can see, CircuitL*gix is just another entrant into a very
crowded market space.  Maybe it's got some better features than some
other tool?  But from your initial postings it didn't make it seem
so.  Also, commercial giveaways are always to be regarded with
suspicion.  And we're a very cynical group in any event.

Cheers,

Stuart


[1]  LTSpice being a notable exception, probably because they make
their money from chips, not from software.

[2] Nothing wrong with that, since the freebie tool is a loss leader.
But anybody using it should think twice about the long-term dangers of
vendor lock-in before they have too many designs done in such a tool.
Same for CircuitL*gix, I would imagine.

Re: Free electronics simulation software -- Cadsoft DRM


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One assumes Carl meant **could NOT care less**.

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Stuart Brorson wrote:
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Yup.  Astroturfing abounds.
http://www.google.com/search?q=define:Astroturfing

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Yup: Lock-in-ware

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True--but, in the year 2007, you have glossed over the biggie:
Cadsoft's DRM (Lock-OUT-ware)
--and their recently-implemented treat-'em-all-like-thieves attitude
(even for fully-paid customers):  8-(

**The Downside of EAGLE** by Markus Zingg
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.embedded/browse_frm/thread/f794e82d26b59e18/d7cf4149edb93ac7?q =*-*-website+reuse+paying.*+*-I-will-switch+cracked-*+*.would.not.help.*+zzz+after-*-*-version-*+copied+*.*.unlock.*.designs+*-*-*-*-exchange-*-*-*-*-third-party+reused+qq+*-*-single-bit-*-*-*-*+useless+*-*-*-projects-could-no-longer-be-opened


Re: Free electronics simulation software


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TINA is commerical SPICE package (out of Budapest!) that TI licensed from
DesignSoft.  TI's response to LTSpice has primarily been to provide a
fuller-featured version of TINA (for free) than they previously had.




Re: Free electronics simulation software


Eagle, LTSpice, and TINA?  What is this......Losers anonymous?  Those are the
three worst simulators that have ever been built.  At least LTSpice has the
excuse that they are not really a simulation product since they sell hardware.
But LTSpice and TINA?  Give me a break. Why even post messages when you have
no clue about simulation software.  Stay in school for a few more years and
then get a job and then post messages.  Until then you are just taking up
valuable space.

Jerry

Stuart Brorson wrote:
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Re: Free electronics simulation software


: Eagle, LTSpice, and TINA?  What is this......Losers anonymous?  Those are the
: three worst simulators that have ever been built.  At least LTSpice has the
: excuse that they are not really a simulation product since they sell hardware.
: But LTSpice and TINA?  Give me a break. Why even post messages when you have
: no clue about simulation software.  Stay in school for a few more years and
: then get a job and then post messages.  Until then you are just taking up
: valuable space.

*chuckle*

I'll be interested in your ranting when you post some benchmark
results comparing CircuitL*gix run times to LTSpice's.  Also, please
post some *reasons* about why CircuitL*gix is better than LTSpice --
besides the purported VHDL ability, which doesn't even appear on their
website as far as I could tell.

Otherwise, you're just another CircuitL*gix shill, and a cranky
one at that.

Meanwhile, for educators looking for simulation software:
consider the full range of freeware and open-source options, including
CircuitL*gix.  But remember why the different closed-source freeware
simulators are out there:  most of them are some attempt at vendor
lock-in.

I'll now leave this thread unless one of you CircuitL*gix guys has
something quantifiable to say.  

Stuart

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The only shill in this discussion is you, Stuart.  You seem to have some
weird obsession with LTSpice, which is a nice little simulator if all you
want to do is analog simulation.  At least CircuitLogix and Multisim provide
mixed-mode simulation, which is what real designers require.  Why you are
afraid of a free simulation product is strange, to say the least.

--
Message posted via ElectronicsKB.com
http://www.electronicskb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cad/200704/1


Re: Free electronics simulation software




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Wow. I had no idea I wasn't a real designer....
Thanks for clearing that up

Steve



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Unless they have very specific needs, I'd suggest it's not really in the best
interest of your students to steer them towards CircuitLogix rather than
LTSpice.  A reasonably sophisticated sernior project could readily exceed the
circuit size limits of the free version of CircuitLogix.  Additionally,
LTSpice is *very* well supported -- for free! -- on the Yahoo! groups; the
program's author still posts regularly.  Just looking at the web site itself,
it's clear that they want to *sell students* the "full educational version."
Of course, there's nothing wrong with trying to make a buck, it's just again
that CircuitLogix doesn't appear to offer $249 worth of "added value" over all
the freeware solutions out there.



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Hello Carl,

First of all LTspice has also built-in mixed mode capability.

I tried now the CircuitLogix simulator. I have to admit that this
animation capability of CircuitLogix is a good feature especially
for education.  www.CircuitLogix.com

On the other hand I couldn't run any of the benchmark SPICE-circuits
with the CircuitLogix program. It always gives the error message:
Invalid CIRCUIT path/file name.
I tried some examples, e.g. File->Open ".cir"  sqrt.cir
http://www.intusoft.com/models/MCNC.zip
(I remaned the SPICE netlist sqrt.sp to sqrt.cir)
Maybe you can tell me what I should change to run this example
with the CircuitLogix simulator.

Overall LTspice is a much more compatible SPICE simulator.
Many of the commercial SPICE simulators don't have this compatilibity.
You can take every SPICE book and immediately run the examples
with LTspice on a netlist level.
I also like the more powerful waveform editor in LTspice.
It can easily work with data files having 1Giga-Byte.
I reommend LTSpice for people who want SPICE.
Not to forgot the many SMPS-models provided with LTspice.
http://www.linear.com/designtools/leadfree/index.jsp

CircuitLogix will have it's place in education because of it's animation
capability. I appreciate that it's free for students and not limited
as most other student versions of commercial SPICE-simulators.
Isn't it the refreshed CircuitMaker program?

Best regards,
Helmut



Re: Free electronics simulation software


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sqrt.cirhttp://www.intusoft.com/models/MCNC.zip
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LTspice.http://www.linear.com/designtools/leadfree/index.jsp
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Hello Helmut,

As much as I would love to comment on CircuitLogix and its Netlist
capabilities, I am not going to bother.  The rude comments that are
posted here and accusations regarding being a shill are completely
discouraging and counterproductive to having any useful discussion
regarding circuit simulation.  It seems that certain people in this
discussion group are more interested in bullying than exchanging
information.

Please note that I am not including you, Helmut, among this group of
small-minded individuals, but it is clear that some people who
subscribe to this user group have an agenda regarding what types of
information they would like to discuss and they are unwilling to allow
any other perspectives to enter the discussion.

Carl


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Hey Carl,

Thanks for forwarding the link regarding CircuitLogix.  I did the
download and it looks very cool.  I couldn't find any info about PCB
exporting.  Do you know if it has that capability?

Kevin


Re: Free electronics simulation software


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Hey Carl,

Thanks for the link regarding Circuitlogix.  I did the download for
the free simulator but couldn't find any information about PCB
export.  Do you know if it has this feature?

Kevin


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