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Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?
On Sat, 17 May 2008 23:10:12 -0400, Phil Hobbs

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A small business can expense about $120K a year in equipment
purchases. The big boys have to show equipment and real estate and
improvements as assets, ie as taxable profit, which the public doesn't
generally understand. No wonder we export jobs.

But in the 1992 situation, they could have had a garage sale for
employees, got rid of the stuff at a suitable loss, and made some
employees very happy. I think.

John



Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?
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That's probably true, but what would I do with a $2m copper dep tool?

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?
On Sun, 18 May 2008 08:38:33 -0400, Phil Hobbs

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Bush
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Sell it and buy a ski lodge?

John


Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?
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http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/11/the-ev-1-wasnt-killed-it-was-dead-on-arrival /
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Bush
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And then the taxman cometh. Audits the company, wonders where all that
stuff went, pokes around a bit in the books, raises his eyebrows, hops
into the car and shows up at the lodge with a humongous tax bill in hand.

I remember when all the trucks moved up 50 towards Nevada in the usual
year-end inventory shuffle. We live 2mi away and it almost caused local
smog. A while ago I took a look at Nevada, see what the biz-friendliness
there would be. Turns out you really have to watch it. If I am not
mistaken Clark County socks people with more than 3% in property taxes.
Yikes!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

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Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?



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To tell vast and extravagant lies about the EV1 ? No I hadn't missed that at all.



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Highly relevant to the motive power required.


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And how exactly is it irrelevant ?


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Only if you also have a second car. And as long as you NEVER find your plans
changed and need to do a longer trip.


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You can't be assured of conveniently recharging in any of those places.


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The myth that it'll get cheaper 'just like that'. IThat's simply inorant
nonsense.


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No ridiculous lengths were required. The cars were always the property of GM.


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Oh poor diddums.


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What a stupid comment !

Graham


Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?

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The motive power is more related to vehicle speed (aerodynamic drag) and
acceleration. The energy you spend hauling a weight uphill can be largely
recouped when going back down.


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Having a second car is an excellent alternative. Also, you can get a
motor-generator set on a small trailer that can be used for longer trips.


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See above. Also this will become more convenient when demand is there.


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The poor diddums will probably turn out to be GM, Ford, et al. There are
plenty of competitors poised to enter the EV market, and GM has simply
followed the lure of quick temporary profits with the promise of an
infinite source of fossil fuel and a power-hungry horde of motorists with
plenty of money to spend on overpowered bloated vehicles that were cheaper
to make. The inevitable economic downturn has erased that scenario, and the
Detroit guys are themselves too big to make changes quickly enough to
respond.

Paul



Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?



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http://gm-volt.com/2008/05/11/the-ev-1-wasnt-killed-it-was-dead-on-arrival /
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Yes, so  a heavy battery will reduce thne car's acceleration making its overal
performance less acceptable.

And DO NOT forget rolling resistance which is affected by weight too.


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The large battery will also mean you take longer to climb those hills.


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Only for those who can afford it and indeed for those who have suitable parking
space. This effectively rules out 'pure' EVs as a practical option for a large
percentage of the population.


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That's utterly ridiculous. Trailers have to be speed-limited for safety reasons
and
that's the last thing you want on a long trip. Never mind that most people
haven't a
clue how to drive properly with a trailer !

This is classic 'grabbing at straws'.


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How do you propose to deal with the common situation where there is no off-road
parking ?


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GM currently has the best looking offerings (Volt and Flextreme). Due to be
available in full-scale production in about 2 years. I think you mean poor Ford
and
Chrysler.


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None of whom have any car manufacturing experience. Futhermore, there's alimited
demand for 2 seaters.


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GM's AHEAD ! You're clearly not aware of what they're doing.

Graham


Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?

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The only relevant thing is how much range you get and whether or not that
suits your requirements.

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You can have a small second car, better battery packs with larger range, and
there are other options.
The majority of driving the average person does is completely predictable.

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My home has a power point in the garage, doesn't yours?
Easy to add if you don't.
My work has power points in the garage. Also easy to add.
My local shopping centre even has a special electric car spot.

The EV1 range would do me just fine for a full work days driving with some
unexpected detours. And I live a long way from my work.

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If you claim to use it for business purposes you could claim the entire cost
of an SUV off your tax in many cases, up to $100,000 maximum. Google popped
these up first:
http://www.selfemployedweb.com/suv-tax-deduction-5.htm
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/auto/car-guide-2004/tax-SUVs1.asp

But as I don't live in the US, I don't know all the in's and out's of that
one. Sounds like they had to tighten up that shocking loop-hole a bit.

Dave.



Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?



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Since when is that range a fixed requirement ?

I've 'commuted' as little as 20-25 miles daily and as far as 100 miles. I don't
really want to have to buy a new car every time I find a new client!

Just WTF do you have against (P)HEVs ? It's clear that they fix ALL the
arguments against EVs in a trice (except for not being able to hear them) and
provide just as much benefit.

Graham


Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?

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Geeze, then don't buy an EV!

It's simple, an EV car has a certain spec, if that spec doesn't meet your
anticipated requirements then don't buy it. Just the same as any other car
or bike or whatever.

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Who said I had anything against HEV's? I don't.

I just like EV's better, I think they are cool. I'd prefer to have an
electric only car.
They aren't for everyone, just like anything else, but that doesn't mean
they are crap and shouldn't be available for those that want them.

Dave.



Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?



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No. Lots of people simply do not have that option for financial or other
practical reasons (lack of parking space etc).

Graham


Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?



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My home doesn't have a garage with power point or otherwise. To recharge an EV
I'd have to trail a power lead across the footpath which is clearly ridiculous.
That's if I can park directly in front of my own house which I usually can't.

Here's one for sale in my road for nearly $1 mill that doesn't have one either.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-18757154.rsp?pa_n=2&tr_t=buy

There is LESS THAN ONE car parking space per house (each house is about 13 feet
wide).

You need to consider that not everyone lives in the USA where you have many
acres per person of land space. The same problem also occurs in some US cities
too.

Graham


Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?
On Mon, 19 May 2008 06:59:20 +0100, Eeyore

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Peoole always for some reason assume that there are only 3  Car
manufactures in the world and that somehow they have all got together
in some to way conspire to not make electric cars.
The sad fact is that no one is making electric cars, at least not
electric cars that people want to buy.
Why arnt some of the Asian manufacturers like Hyundai or Daewoo making
electric cars.
Same reason GM isnt, they arnt viable yet, and they wont be viable
until someone invents a low cost hi energy density battery.
Lithium Ions dont even come close .

Have you ever wondered why Toyota wont mass produce a PHEV version of
the Prius.
They have made one.


Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?
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many

Dense central urban populations take the train or subway.  Suburbanites
have no choice, so most of this conversation is geared toward them.  And
guess what, a whole lot of the U.S. is suburban. . . .

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: A very philosophical monk.
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms



Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?



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Only if they're going to the right place. Not everywhere has a subway either.

Graham


Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?
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   Too bad for you and the other sardines.  I have a 30' * 40' four car
garage, with its own 100 A 240 VAC service. There is a 18' * 28' shop
building, and a 12' * 24' guesthouse behind the three bedroom house.
There are two 12' * 12' buildings as well. One is the laundry building,
and the other a small workshop.  A 6' * 10' potting shed is on the far
end of the guest house, and a 10' * 10' dog kennel behind the guesthouse
and shop buildings.  It's on a half acre, with the Florida Greenbelt
behind (Western side), and on the north side.  Places like this can
still be bought for under $100K in some areas of Florida.

<http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=Belleview,+FL,+USA&ie=UTF8&ll29%.091214,-82.088452&spn=0.001641,0.0025&t=h&z19%

  You could have the same for a reasonable price, if you lived in a
civilized country.



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   Most people in the US DON'T have acres of land, idiot. More of your
vast ignorance of the US is showing.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
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Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?
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Car?:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037 /
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7202740060236675590
"Who Killed the Electric Car? It was among the fastest, most efficient
production cars ever built. It ran on electricity, produced no
emissions and catapulted American technology to the forefront of the
automotive industry. The lucky few who drove it never wanted to give
it up. So why did General Motors crush its fleet of EV1 electric
vehicles in the Arizona desert?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
Who Killed the Electric Car? is a 2006 documentary film that explores
the birth, limited commercialization, and subsequent death of the
battery electric vehicle in the United States, specifically the
General Motors EV1 of the 1990s. The film explores the roles of
automobile manufacturers, the oil industry, the US government,
batteries, hydrogen vehicles, and consumers in limiting the
development and adoption of this technology.

It was released on DVD to the home video market on November 14, 2006
by Sony Pictures Home Entertainment.

During an interview with CBS News, director Chris Paine announced that
he would be making a sequel called Who Saved the Electric Car? This
idea was later scrapped as there were not enough topics to discuss.[1]

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=electric+car
6880 results

http://www.google.com/search?q=electric+car
10,300,000 results

"The sequel was later scrapped as there were not enough topics to
discuss."

?

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?



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What a load of nonsense.

LIES like that just make you look stupid.

Graham


Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?
On Fri, 23 May 2008 19:37:21 +0100, Eeyore

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---
Lies?

How would _you_ know?
 
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Re: Who Killed the Electric Car?
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   He's greedy.  He wants ALL of the abuse.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
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