Who Killed the Electric Car?

For GM? Enlighten us.

Reply to
David Gravereaux
Loading thread data ...

If Charles Cagle is right, there's a good chance:

formatting link

I think Big Oil had a lot to do with influencing GM to abandon and sabotage their own EV program, just as they have tried to reverse any trend toward greater fuel economy by encouraging the glorification of horsepower, size, weight, speed, and competitive driving.

There are a lot of options for efficient vehicles:

formatting link

Paul

Reply to
Paul E. Schoen

It may not exist at the moment, but the switch to electric (as well as other more efficient vehicles) must be accompanied by an overall reduction in our total per-capita energy consumption. Even if new electric power plants would be built, using the same fossil fuels that now power automobiles, they would be much more efficient and cleaner than millions of individual cars and trucks being driven in stop-and-go traffic. But the ultimate resolution to this problem will involve people changing their lifestyles, using more public transportation, living closer to jobs (or telecommuting), and generally becoming a more cooperative society living and working closely with other people, rather than isolationism, needless competition, and broken families.

Paul

Reply to
Paul E. Schoen

Amen! Well said.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Joerg

Heavens, Yes! Let's squash competition... and no more bellyaching... Windows Vista for everyone ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Jim Thompson

In message , Jeff Liebermann writes

Our milk and much of the doorstep delivered milk in the UK is still delivered on electric vehicles with no refrigeration. I suspect the design of the vehicle hasn't changed much at all in the last 50 years, some of the 'floats' I see have registration letters that indicate they are over 40 years old.

--
Clint Sharp
Reply to
Clint Sharp

(1) Any product you have in the public's hands exposes you to liability suits.

(2) In the automotive industry you have to provide parts for 7 years after introduction.

My guess is that the battery technology wasn't ready for prime time and they had some accidental "events" they didn't publish.

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Oh, there'll be competition, has to be. But there shouldn't be a needless one, such as umpteen shuttle services going to the airport but none to the local industry parks around here. We can't keep on pretending that it's ok to keep tooling around in big trucks just to go to the grocery store. Guess what, people around here have come to their senses about that. The number of flights leaving our local airstrip is down to about half, when walking the dogs we see lots of trucks for sale, lots of brand new Priuses showing up in driveways. Fact is, Toyota has recognized the signs of the time and GM has not. They'll better get cracking on it, and soon.

As for Vista: I was even contemplating removing the sign at the end of the driveway because it reads "Casa de la Vista" (we have a great view and a previous owner put it up).

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Joerg

The competition I was referring to is the sort that makes drivers do stupid maneuvers to get one or two cars ahead in traffic, or resorting to cutthroat tactics to get advancement in the business world. There is good competition, and as long as it is fair, it results in better products and better people. It's OK for people to engage in sports and games to outmuscle and outsmart each other, but when they buy extra horsepower and bigger vehicles and use them in a deadly real-life game on the roads, it becomes a problem. That is where cooperation is really needed.

I sure don't want Vista. XP is the first OS (since maybe MSDOS6.22) that seems to be stable and reliable. But at least there is Linux that I would consider if XP were no longer available. I use the automatic update feature, and I dread the day that I get a particularly lengthy update, and a reboot screen that reads:

"Welcome to Windows Vista! Microsoft has generously updated your old XP system to our latest wonderful product at absolutely no charge to you! Since you were a little short of disk space, we have removed those old files so you will have more room for the colorful multimedia presentations we have loaded there for your entertainment!"

Paul

Reply to
Paul E. Schoen

Good old capitalist's rule: He who takes no risks will not win.

I have taken quite some risks in my career and I am sure you did. I expect the same from our corporate leadership, else there won't be progress.

A good company ups that to 15 or 20 years, at least. Else the reputation is toast and in automotive a loos of reputation is nearly a permanent thing.

Maybe they should send their engineers to a Japanese university then?

Sorry for being so sarcastic but sometimes the excuses the big three come up with are almost sickening. And they should stop calling 32mpg for a mid-size passenger car an achievement when my wife's 1995 Toyota regularly nets >35mpg.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Joerg

Only over my dead body.

Or you want to finish that one design that the client needs on Monday and you realize that your CAD now only produces "An unknown error has occurred and the application is being debugged", followed by 10 minutes of trundling and a blue screen.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Joerg

[snip]

Try as I may, when I'm scurrying to my office, I can't avoid being cut-off by my dog ;-)

I agree. However I prefer excess power for my own safety. On many occasions I've simply out-run highway predators. I even had one occasion where some banditos ran out into the roadway to stop me... I simply took aim and sped up... I could see the whites of their eyes as they fled ;-)

[snip]

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Strange. Our shepherd does the same thing with me. Every morning.

Man, what neighborhood do you live in? Even in rough-and-tumble South Sacramento where most of the shootings are that doesn't happen a lot.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Joerg

On Fri, 16 May 2008 10:59:46 -0700, Jeff Liebermann put finger to keyboard and composed:

Australia has plenty of gas. Maybe this car would be a viable option:

formatting link

"The fourth-generation Chrysler turbine engine ran at up to 60,000 rpm could use diesel fuel, unleaded gasoline, kerosene, JP-4 jet fuel, and even vegetable oil. The engine would run virtually on anything and the president of Mexico tested this theory by running one of the first cars - successfully - on tequila. No adjustments were needed to switch from one to another. The engine had a fifth as many moving parts as a piston unit (60 rather than 300). The turbine was spinning on simple sleeve bearings for vibration-free running. Its simplicity offered the potential for long life, and because no combustion contaminants enter engine oil, no oil changes were considered necessary. The 1963 Turbine's engine generated 130 brake horsepower (97 kW) and an instant

425 pound-feet (576 N·m) of torque at stall speed, making it good for 0-60 mph in 12 seconds ..."

- Franc Zabkar

--
Please remove one \'i\' from my address when replying by email.
Reply to
Franc Zabkar

Franc Zabkar wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

The exhaust was also known to melt asphalt pavement...though I suppose that's better than a gamma tan from tail-gating a nuclear reactor.

--Damon, still hoping for a Mr. Fusion

Reply to
Damon Hill

Rover had built a similar car but AFAIR only one. The manager once let another guy whom he'd picked up somewhere take it for a spin and he was thoroughly impressed. But as usual the gas mileage was quite terrible. Probably there is a lot of load change lag as well. Somehow a great concept if one could get the NOX under control but nowadays all that is water under the bridge anyhow.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Joerg

This was just east of El Paso, I10 eastbound, 3-4 Mexicanos popped out from behind an overpass abutment, waving their arms wildly hoping I would stop. Seeing no wreck, fearing a hijack attempt and seeing clear road ahead of me, I just took aim at one of them, keeping aim as he tried to dodge me. He barely made the edge safely.

What made this particularly amusing was I was taking Jennifer's furniture and stuff to her first year at Baylor (26 years ago). She was following right behind my 280ZX in a new Nissan Sentra... with instructions... in case of unusual circumstances, do _exactly_ as I do... so she followed my gyrations precisely... I think the Mexicanos were suitably frightened by the double-teaming ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Jim Thompson

There is a Ford Fusion:

formatting link

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Joerg

Quite a few people think it's worthwhile. One of the conversion sites:

lists the costs of converting a Prius to various plug-in power options at:

- $6,000-10,000 for lead acid batteries

- $8,000 for NiMH

- $10,000 and up for Li-Ion

One of the do it thyself sites:

suggests about $6,000 plus 2 weeks labor.

$32,000 seems a bit extreme.

Well, maybe a nuclear powered home water heater (and sterilizer).

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the manufacturers. Every time the economy, ecology, or government tries to push Americans into smaller cars, the domestic manufacturers find that only the big behemoth vehicles sell. The dealers discount the "unsellable" big cars in order to get rid of them. The buyers look at the price tags and notice they can buy a big car for sometime less than an economy car. Also, the buyers have a perception that they get more "value" per dollar in a bigger car. The net result is that the big cars continue to sell, while the poorly thrown-together economy cars, tend to sit on the lots.

Let's play with the numbers. A gas hog SUV will get about 14mpg. An economy mini-SUV will do about 28mpg. If I drive 15,000 miles per year, at $4/gallon for regular, the gas costs are: $4,300 /year for the 14mpg gas hog SUV $2,100 /year for the 28mpg econo SUV That's $2,200/year difference. If the economy SUV costs MORE than the gas hog (due to dealer discounts and difference in demand), a customer might be willing to pay the extra $2,100/year just to drive the bigger SUV. I've been looking for a new vehicle and found that I can buy a

2003 gas hog SUV for about $5,000 and an economy mini-SUV for about $12,000. If I plan to keep it for about 3 years, I'll break even. A bit more than 3 years if I throw in time value of money.

So, at this time, economy cars are in demand, yet I'm sure if I quiz the local used car dealers, the discounted gas hogs are still selling equally as well.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558            jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

I wonder whether they all did a sober calculation including the rather finite number of charge cycles. I've seen lots of enviro-fans get carried away.

Well, here's the story I mentioned. He had to plunk down $32k but that was with labor and not DYI:

formatting link

That would be nice. We (have to) use propane for water heating. Used to be $35/mo. Now it's about $80/mo. I'd call that hyper-inflationary.

Ok, my calcs are way different. I tend to keep cars for much longer than a decade. Heck, my trusty Mitsubishi econo SUV is 11 years old now and looks like new. I could imagine driving it another 10 years easily. Same for my wife's 1995 Toyota, looks like new, runs like new.

If I had my druthers I'd import one of those 16-horse Citroen 2CV I use to drive back at the university. This one:

formatting link

It always netted me around 50mpg on regular, didn't mind the transition to unleaded and the engine was designed 70 (!) years ago. All they really did later was up the horsepower once in a while.

Not out here. There is a reason why Toyota does so well and we can see that reason in driveways every day when we take our dogs for a long walk. Remember when the guys at Buick and other places scoffed and laughed once they saw an ad for the VW Beetle? Pretty soon after they were heard syaing things like "Oh s..t!". Anyhow, at the end of the day the bottomline at the individual automaker speaks the truth. And that truth is painfully clear.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Joerg

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.