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Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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That's not a passenger car nor is it a safe way to travel.




Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:16:12 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper

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oxides
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Actually, "oxides of nitrogen". From Sylvia's comment at the
top of this post:

"An H2 burning air breathing internal combustion engine
gives of oxides of nitrogen." (Well, "nitrgoen", but we all
get our fnigers out of sync occasionally.)

Nitrogen makes up 80% of air, and the flame temperatures
associated with burning H2 in air guarantee that NOx will
form.

Any more attempts to evade the issue that air-breathing H2
engines are *not* clean?
--

Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
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Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 11:05:47 -0700, the following appeared

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oxides
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[Crickets...]

Run away! Run away!
--

Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
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Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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LOOK ABOVE!




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you constantly rearrange facts and drivel non existent arguments.

****

H2 is not only EFFICIENT AND CHEAP!  It's FREE!

Imagine if a solar panel (a sheet of silicon - like putting cardboard
in perspex)

was $5/square meter?

The Petrol Engine is only getting 30% of the chemical energy from
fuel.

The H2 comes from RAINWATER !!!
Electrolysis is powered by the SUN !!!

You don't need H2 production at night!  That's the point!  It's stored
SOLAR ENERGY.

O2 (if it's even needed) comes from the OTHER ELECTRODE
produced at the same ratio that it's used for power generation.

Herc


Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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It has actually been better put across by William Mook (aka
Mokenergy), and the mainstream status-quo of forever hydrocarbons
hasn't bought into any of it.

Yes, H2 can become relatively cheap, though perhaps not ever as cheap
as offered by William Mook, and otherwise it's ideally suited for fuel-
cell applications, as well as for dozens of applications in
commercial, industrial and retail/end-use.

Supposedly the Boeing solar panel division (Spectrolab) has actually
broken the 100% PV efficiency by converting IR through UV, although
that's with a rather spendy advanced product that most of us can't
possibly afford.  Commercially and otherwise for space or military
applications they currently offer a spendy 43% efficiency factor.
 http://www.spectrolab.com/DataSheets/PV/pv_tech/msce.pdf

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 Brad Guth,Brad_Guth,Brad.Guth,BradGuth,BG,Guth Usenet/94%Guth Venus94%


Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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Yeh but the sunlight just hits the DIRT anyway!

there's a million spare acres outside every city.

You could use 0.00000001% efficient Solar Panels and just put up more
of them!

Sure you have to get the technology as economical as feasible 1st.

This isn't a put-as-many-panels-on-your-roof-as-you-can-fit problem!

If you can mass produce 5% efficient panels for 1/4 the price of 10%
efficient panels then that's what you would use at a Power/H2 plant.

Herc

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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Exactly correct, and I never once accepted the higher level of
conversion efficiency touted by Mokenergy, although the basic concept
of utilizing such spare/surplus land for accommodating his custom
solar collectors was never in doubt of offering a perfectly viable
clean energy alternative.  Mook's hydrogen even at twice his suggested
production cost was still a very good return on investment, not to
mention squeaky clean and renewable, other than solar farm maintenance
that would always represent a small carbon footprint.

A solar farm using 20% efficient PVs would still be a whole lot less
all-inclusive spendy than any conventional nuclear reactor, not only
per GW but per acreage once everything (aka birth-to-grave) about
conventional nuclear generated energy is taken into account.  Mass
produced PVs by China and India could do those items for as little as
$1/watt installed, and because hardly any skilled labor is necessary
once this solar farm process is set in motion is why the annual upkeep
shouldn't have to exceed 10 cents per installed watt (roughly $7.50/m2/
yr).

Once the H2 and Ox plus amounts of LH2 and LOx is made and stored it
can be further distributed and/or directly used on demand in order to
generate a great deal of clean energy via fuel-cells.

You really should compare notes with Mook, although be forewarned that
he usually has to run the whole show, taking most if not all of the
credit for the best methods of doing just about everything.  Otherwise
Mook is a relatively harmless but way better than average educated
person that only happens to come across as a know-it-all.

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 Brad Guth,Brad_Guth,Brad.Guth,BradGuth,BG,Guth Usenet/94%Guth Venus94%

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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it's cheap as chips!   another alternative is thin black piping like
that used
on roofs to solar heat pools.

You can collect heat from the sun very cheaply, but the peltier
devices
to get electricity from hot water would cost more than solar panels.

Or a transparent plastic cover over a shallow Lake would heat up in
only
a couple days.  Those bubble wrap pool covers are like steam baths in
summer!

Stirling Engines would only be say DELTA 30 DEGREES / 270 efficient.

My Evap Cooler Droplet Catching design was meant to get the COLD
Terminal
down an extra 10-20 degrees to double the efficiency of Solar Sterling
Stations.

Bit of a nightmare generator to build though.

http://camaffiliate.com/DRY-AIR-INTAKE.jpg

http://camaffiliate.com/INTERNAL-EVAPORATION-UNIT.jpg


G. Cooper  (BInfTech)
--

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http://tinyURL.com/BLUEPRINTS-TURING
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Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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(Amazon.com product link shortened)


Put a Mylar blanket on the bottom of a 2m deep lake
and clear Mylar on the top to stop evaporation.

Like parking a black car in the sun all day, the entire lake will
reach 60 degrees in 2 days sun.

It's Easy to tap Unlimited Energy when it's shining in your face all
the time.

Herc

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 14:22:34 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper

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Been there; done that; pointed out your error ("It's
clean!") several times, as did Sylvia. In fact, her
response, which you apparently fail to understand, is right
below:

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of oxides
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So let's look again at everything related to how "clean" an
H2-burning IC engine is when using air as the oxidizer
source...

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What facts? And what "rearrangement"? Your claim is that
H2-burning IC engines are "clean". They're not, unless
combustion takes place in pure O2.

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Really? "FREE!"? No cost at all, for production, storage or
distribution? Do you know anything about the issues involved
with the storage of hydrogen?

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There's a bit more to it than that ("cardboard"?), but I
wouldn't expect you to know anything about the cost of
producing high-purity silicon or of using it to build
photovoltaic panels.

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Imagine if a bullfrog had wings so he wouldn't bump his ass
when he jumps.

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Irrelevant; the issue is whether H2-burning IC engines are
inherently clean, even if using air for the oxidizer source.
They're not.

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It is if you want your H2-burning IC engine to be clean.

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That's quite a dream world you inhabit: Solar panels are
"FREE!", the infrastructure required to convert their output
to a usable form for distribution is "FREE!", the storage
facilities and equipment to store the gases are "FREE!"...

In fact, everything about converting from fossil fuels to
hydrogen is apparently, in your imagination, "FREE!".
--

Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
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Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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OK I admit it, you were wrong I was right.

Try finding something that contravenes what I wrote next time!


*****

All energy comes from the mass of the Universe
collapsing in on itself


gravity -> suns ->  H->He  -> light

light -> planets -> solar panel / plant leaves

solar panel + water -> H2 + O2 -> vroom!

plant leaves + water + CO2 -> C6 H12 O6 glucose -> yumm!

million year old plant leaves -> petrol -> old smokers #$#$@%


*****

Herc

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 14:14:39 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper

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gives of oxides
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secondary
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cannot
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Take your meds, and stop trying to do whatever it is that
you call "thinking"; the results are unfortunate.

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Everything I posted contradicts what you wrote, and anyone
can read the above exchange to see that it does. Apparently
comprehension isn't your strong suit.
--

Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
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Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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BOBC - "Dirty H2 engines are dirty!"


Thanks for the tip bro!

Herc
--
BIG BANG
..\
....\
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Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 14:19:56 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper

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gives of oxides
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secondary
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cannot
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As I said, the results are unfortunate, and comprehension
isn't your strong suit.

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Don't bother; you'll just forget it by tomorrow and come up
with some equally inane claim.
--

Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
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Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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Stop being OBTUSE you flat out LIAR

Herc

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 12:52:07 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper

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Oh, the irony...
--

Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
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Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 13:26:29 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper

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Try breathing them and let us know; nitrous acid in the
lungs might be quite amusing. But that's irrelevant; your
claim has been refuted.
--

Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
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Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
On Mon, 9 Jul 2012 08:36:00 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper

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Only if the oxidizer is pure O2. If the hydrogen burns in
air there are quite a few byproducts, mainly nitrogen
compounds; high combustion temperatures guarantee it.
--

Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
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Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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You shouldn't put much store in what Graham says I said last year, since
he's unable even to track what I've said in my previous posting.

Sylvia

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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huh?

good agument when I remember what you said and you don't

why don't you just cite the figure,

you said 85% or 90% efficient by memory.

electrolysis is on par with charging a bettery in efficiency!

http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2010/08/honda-refu =
eling-station-ed01.jpg

the picture is of a home hydrogen fuel pump!

I won't say anything if you just deny everything I say!

ffs


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