What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power? - Page 5

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Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?

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because people are implementing alleged CO2 reducing
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Wow!!!
That's the closest thing to a love-letter to Sylvia that Phil has  ever
posted!!!!
 



Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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Do you mean like carbon capture and sequestration?

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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Well that's a bit different. If it can be made to work (economically!)
and provided the stuff stays where it's been put, and doesn't escape
causing mass fatalites, then it will reduce the CO2 output to the
atmosphere.

That's not the same as a technology that looks as if it should work, but
doesn't, when all the ramifications of using it are taken into account.

Sylvia.


Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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LMAO



Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
Of course we could all start using these instead:

http://www.empasys.net /

No fuel or other enery inputs. Lasts forever. "Ambient energy conversion
with quantum coherence technology."

Sounds almost too good to be true.

Sylvia.


Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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You just tap the thermal energy in the Ocean.

1% energy fee to separate ocean temp down to 5 degrees.

Cheap solar heaters to get 60 degree lakes.

Mix 60 degree and 5 degree sources and you get 55/275 efficiency
stirling engine or peltier generators.

Herc

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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You can get energy out of the ocean, but it takes so much infrastructure
to get so little energy that it simply makes no economic sense. Which is
why no one is using it as a serious energy supply.

Indeed, why go to the ocean. Connect up a bunch of microphones, and just
collect energy from the outside ambient noise.

Economic. That's the word you need to remember. It's not sufficient for
something to be physically possible. It has to be economic before it
will be used in the mainstream.

Sylvia.

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all of this discussion is about research using known technologies or
derivations, what is needed and will happen someday, is some genius
thinking completely out of the square that comes up with something
totally different. the main problem with this is that it has the
potential to completely alter economies and send the world in a spin, so
the genius had better be careful. :)

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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**Thinking outside the box over the weekend. Let's say you plonk a dirty
great PV array on your roof in a year or two. Then you buy yourself a
Holden Volt. During the day, you plug your Volt into the power supplied
by the PV array. Given the fact that you are (in theory) a typical
Australian driver, your driving is limited to around 40km/day. That
suggests you will never use anything but renewable energy to power your
car. That would result in a useful reduction in CO2 emissions. If
several million car owners did the same thing, the results would be
significant.

--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au



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you can put your 2 electrodes into rainwater and fill your own
hydrogen tanks.

very efficient too!

now THAT is how you store the solar power station energy for 18 hours
each night and run hydrogen plants overnight.

no batteries - 100% solar.  cloud proof.

***

My dads's idea was to have nuclear reactors in the desert and cart
hydrogen in trucks to the capital cities, or a pipeline.

just have massive solar stations out of town and use hydrogen
"batteries".  fuels the cars while you're at it.

http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2010/08/honda-refu =
eling-station-ed01.jpg


Herc

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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**No, it is not. Around 30% efficient, in fact.

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**Yes, it is, but there are better ways.

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http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2010/08/honda-refueling-station-ed01.jpg
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--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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Sylvia gave a figure of 90% last year or around there.

The car battery is going to cost you more than petrol



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Nope!  Not unless you use thermal energy and masses and masses of
pissy thermal generators.

Hydrogen is how it's all done.

SOLAR >> ELECTRICITY >> HYDROGEN >> GENERATOR >> ELECTRICITY
  V                        V
  V                        V
ELECTRICITY     HYDROGEN >> CARS



Herc

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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**The 90% figure may be the theoretical figure. The actual figure is far
lower.



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**Duh. Fortunately, the battery can be recharged many times, with the
'free' energy provided by PV cells.

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**Not yet. The conversion efficiency is (presently) far too low.


--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au



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You're reverse engineering your arguments with zero facts to fit the
current climate.

I agree if you have a low KM range the current technology might
provide a mediocre cost benefit charging your own $10,000 battery way
under full capacity.

The hybrid cars are PR stunt.  Dumb idea having 2 engines!

Remember when the concept was out they would run off braking power
from Brisbane to Perth and back on 1 tank!


Herc

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?

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Isn't experience a bitch, but don't let that stop you actually builting it.


Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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**No. Making hydrogen from electricity is presently extremely inefficient.

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The battery technology used in the Volt is in it's early days. Battery
costs should fall with increasing production quantities. It is churlish
to use the production costs of a relatively new technology with that
which has been in production for more than 100 years. In 1960, the cost
of a field effect transistor was measured in the hundreds of Dollars.
Now they cost far less than a Dollar. As battery production is ramped
up, costs will fall.


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*Why? An IC engine has the ability to use the enormous chemical energy
available in typical hydrocarbon fuels, but relatively poor torque
characteristics, at low RPM. Electric motors, OTOH, develop maximum
torque at zero RPM, thus allowing for excellent stop-start motoring. An
electric motor has an additional advantage in allowing for the recovery
of lost energy during braking.

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**I never heard that claim.

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--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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You said 40%!

An electric motor is 70%!  Charging a battery is 70%.  0.7^2 3D% 49%.

A H2 "battery" uses WATER!

The H2 engine gives off WATER VAPOUR for exhaust!  It's clean!

No biproduct.  You're comparing that to a chemical reaction energy
store.




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http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID3D%SB1695&form3D%CAT2&SUBCATID3D%997 =
#12
$305
12V 100AH DEEP CYCLE GEL BATTERY
Deep-cycle gel performance for solar installations



You can't do it!  Not with a 2 tonne car to carry a 50kg person!

Electric bike maybe!  Technology is ripe for bikes, Aus has a 200W
limit.

Those 200km/hour electric cars that travel 100km+ range have a BOOT
FULL OF BATTERIES!  Concept cars!

NiCads got up to 200 recharges.
NiMetalHydride got up to 1000.
Gel Cells are about 365 charges.

This is the best you can get!

http://jaycar.com.au/products_uploaded/SB1695_Spec_Sheet.pdf

capacity after 3 months 3D% 91%
capacity after 6 months 3D% 82%
capacity after 12 months 3D% 64%


A car is moving 1 tonne from 0-100km in 5 seconds...

it's not a battery application!  FFS!

You're not going to beat 1000 recharges per battery - EVER

those hybrid cars turn the petrol engine on every time you put the
pedal down.



Herc

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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I could fit 20 of these in my boot.  20KW x 1 hour.

What's a V8?   300KW!

but replacement is $6K/year and range is halved by 12 months.

(that's not covering electricity cost)



Herc

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?

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An H2 burning air breathing internal combustion engine gives of oxides
of nitrgoen.

Sylvia.

Re: What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?
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And LOTS of them due to the flame temperatures.



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