What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?

**Sounds about right. Probly an alloy block. An iron block will take a good deal longer.

FWIW: Back when I was in tech, a mate bought a brand new 4 Litre Cortina. As I recall, the 4 Litre Cortina was capable of around 100kW. Tucked away in the handbook was a warning:

"Do not apply full throttle and full braking simultaneously for more than 10 seconds."

Those words suggested that the auto gearbox could disspiate 100kW for 10 seconds. Not half bad!

--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

That's not a passenger car nor is it a safe way to travel.

No structural integrity and the weight of the battery, motor and dri... errr rider should make for an amusing contraption to watch come to pieces at

100km/h.

you plonk a

yourself a

power supplied

many

circumstances.

no

That we can sort of agree on. Both types are just total wankers with more money... Err, I mean "credit" than sense, and trying to "make a statement", impress similar wankers, think they wil l somehow appear "special" or "superior" in some strange way whereas in reality they are a joke.

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:16:12 -0700 (PDT), the following appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper :

oxides

Actually, "oxides of nitrogen". From Sylvia's comment at the top of this post:

"An H2 burning air breathing internal combustion engine gives of oxides of nitrogen." (Well, "nitrgoen", but we all get our fnigers out of sync occasionally.)

Nitrogen makes up 80% of air, and the flame temperatures associated with burning H2 in air guarantee that NOx will form.

Any more attempts to evade the issue that air-breathing H2 engines are *not* clean?

--

Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
                          - McNameless

t

William Mook will have your naysay mindset fixed, or tossed overboard. Actually direct conversion via solar energy isn't all that inefficient, especially withen the raw power source is unlimited, renewable and free for the taking. We could even make, store and distribute HTP via solar energy. Boeing now claims having a 100+% efficient PV technology, that's spendy as hell but it'll become cheap if give to the likes of India and China to develop those commercially viable and otherwise end-use PV panels for us.

Brad Guth,Brad_Guth,Brad.Guth,BradGuth,BG,Guth Usenet/=94Guth Venus=94

e

one

That is not true, but then I'm not such a naysay FUD-master with energy investments at risk, like yourself.

Fuel cells are capable of delivering 60% efficiency from H2 and O2, with zero CO2 and even zero NOx if the N2 is never made hot enough or introduced to begin with.

Brad Guth,Brad_Guth,Brad.Guth,BradGuth,BG,Guth Usenet/=94Guth Venus=94

I'm

Unless you're run off the road or hit by an 8000 lb SUV or truck.

If all city streets were policed to have nothing exceeding 2000 lb verticals, then the golf-carts or that of your " Dune Buggy size electrics" should be perfectly fine and dandy. Otherwise being energy efficient and dead at the same time seems a little counter productive.

People could learn to walk and/or bike a few miles, exactly like many of us did as kids and young adults.

. I'm

Bingo! I've stated this 4 times in the thread already.

The Govt. has to level the field, you can't have a Volvo head on with the Lean Machine!

80% of car usage is

Stop being OBTUSE you flat out LIAR

Herc

rrr

Bike Riders do OK! 200W Bike will keep you going at 50km/hour on the flat, bit of peddling will get you up to speed quicker without draining power. i.e. pedal to start from the lights.

This car won't have pedals though.

1000W bike (illegal in Aus) will accelerate nicely for you.

Probably top 100km/hour my 2000W design, briefly.

Air resistance is proportional to the SQUARE of speed.

It's not noticeable at Suburb speeds, you can wear sunnies if you like.

When you get up to 180km/hr you can't move your helmet left or right on a motorbike, you won't be moving it back to center the wind resistance kicks in about 150km/hr.

Herc

... I'm

y

A proper hybrid fuel-cell w/lithium or HP battery, and offering the HTP

+hydrocarbon direct combustion turbine for the full-sized car, SUV or maximum 4WD truck shouldn't be a problem at packing a tonne of payload plus delivering loads of energy on demand, and otherwise capable of giving us 100+ mpg out of that spendy hydrocarbon fuel.

Brad Guth,Brad_Guth,Brad.Guth,BradGuth,BG,Guth Usenet/=94Guth Venus=94

ng... I'm

rgy

.

Fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) Main articles: Fuel cell vehicle, Hydrogen vehicle

Automobiles Although there are currently no Fuel cell vehicles available for commercial sale, over 20 FCEVs prototypes and demonstration cars have been released since 2009. Demonstration models include the Honda FCX Clarity, Toyota FCHV-adv, and Mercedes-Benz F-Cell.[61] As of June

2011 demonstration FCEVs had driven more than 4,800,000 km (3,000,000 mi), with more than 27,000 refuelings.[62] Demonstration fuel cell vehicles have been produced with "a driving range of more than 400 km (250 mi) between refueling".[63] They can be refueled in less than 5 minutes.[64] The U.S. Department of Energy's Fuel Cell Technology Program claims that, as of 2011, fuel cells achieved 53=9659% efficiency at =BC power and 42=9653% vehicle efficiency at full power,[65] and a durability of over 120,000 km (75,000 mi) with less than 10% degradation

Sounds better than a battery!

-Fuelcell.jpg

Herc

The Subaru having a flat 4 motor has 2 small aluminium blocks to heat.

I'm all for clean, renewable energy... but I'm a realist also.

That's a lot of ifs, buts and maybes... but they don't change the facts as they stand today. It's an inefficient process.

Doesn't matter. Greenies don't include the CO2 released by rotting human corpses when calculating greenhouse impacts.

Sylvia.

r

=A0 :o|

en

the

William Mook had that one nicely covered as of a decade ago, and not hardly a soul in Usenet/newsgroups ever cared, other than to topic/ author stalk and bash his ideas into the ground. Perhaps it was the all-knowing mindset of Mook that made his proposed use of his solar derived hydrogen sound a bit too good to be true, although his creating of relatively cheap hydrogen and oxygen from water and solar energy (even at twice his proposed cost) wasn't any ruse or spoof, and that hydrogen as used in a fuel-cell can produce 60% efficiency with as near to zero environmental impact as energy gets.

Relatively low cost hydrogen is certainly not a problem.

The problem is with the closed mindset of most individuals and that of government and Big Energy that wants absolutely nothing to do with any of it unless it's only provided by their Oligarch Rothschild cartel. Steven Chu wasn't of any help either.

I happen to prefer the mobile use or application of HTP along with the high quality of liquid synfuel hydrocarbons derived from Mokenergy coal, as a dual-fuel method of providing terrific energy density from a very small internal combustion engine that could power any full sized hybrid car, truck or bus of any size without those energy or operational range limitations of conventional hybrids. A hydrogen peroxide battery is also a terrific application of solar energy derived HP, and Mook's clean synfuel from coal via his hydrogen from solar energy, was yet another terrific win-win for all of us.

Brad Guth,Brad_Guth,Brad.Guth,BradGuth,BG,Guth Usenet/=94Guth Venus=94

:

hing... I'm

nergy

ve.

=94

Actually a battery that's using 50% hydrogen peroxide is simply another terrific notion to go along with Mokenergy synfuel from coal, or just to directly utilize his solar generated hydrogen and oxygen which can't be all that insurmountable nor spendy if we truly wanted to develop the cleaner alternatives of renewable energy.

Extremely high pressure storage tanks for automotive hydrogen are doable, although the next logical step down is to simply provide HTP which is a liquid that can be directly used by itself or along with a small amount of hydrocarbons in a dual-fuel engine that requires no atmospheric intake whatsoever, and offers a clean exhaust that we can all live with.

A hydrogen plus HTP and synfuel from coal based economy, along with quality fuel-cell technology and dual-fuel internal combustion engines is a perfectly good plan, even if it's not for everyone.

Brad Guth,Brad_Guth,Brad.Guth,BradGuth,BG,Guth Usenet/=94Guth Venus=94

s

The all-inclusive benefits far outweigh any negatives that you and others of your mainstream perpetual naysay kind always have to offer.

Mokenergy derived hydrogen and oxygen from solar energy is relatively cheap and perhaps gets us as close to renewable as it ever needs to get. Unfortunately there's no enforced law making any of us use such technology, although there are enforced policies making us go to war over hydrocarbons and to otherwise pay for its Karma.

Are you also opposed to thorium fueled reactors?

Brad Guth,Brad_Guth,Brad.Guth,BradGuth,BG,Guth Usenet/=94Guth Venus=94