What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?

SHORT ANSWER: lots of batteries cost more than 1 battery

LONG ANSWER:

No, the initial battery cost is small.

2KW 24/7 (all sunny days)

$300 =3D 100AH =3D 1200WH =3D 1000W effective for 1 hour

2 batteries =3D 2KW x 1 hour 50 batteries =3D 2KW x 24 hours

STARTUP COST $15,000 battery to run a big aircon all year 24/7

REPLACEMENT COST $150,000 batteries to maintain system for 10 years.

(battery only lasts a year full charge/discharge every day)

You can get longer life, say 5yrs (and maintain charge during a weeks cloud) if you started up with $50,000 batteries.

Mind you that will run a big aircon full time for 5 years, through cloudy weeks.

Townsville / Cairns setup where 95% of houses run aircons all day, nearly all year.

Herc

So basically if you need aircon during the night and there's a grid handy, use the grid!

that's why I'm experimenting putting 40W peltier cooling elements in my 40W evap cooler!

You know how in stores they put ice in the demo evaporative coolers and they work really well?

A small peltier device (12V esky component - $15 from Jaycar)

will keep the tank at 5 degrees, no ice needed!

they don't make coolers like that because it takes 30min to cool the tank which catalyses the evap cooling effect.

Herc

**I did the sums about 4 years ago. For about a week's energy needs, I'd need to plonk down around $4k for high quality, lead/acid batteries. With careful use of energy, that 7 days could be stretched further, particularly given the lower energy requirements of many appliances now (inverter air cons, LED/LCD TV sets, LED lighting, etc). $4k is less than I spend every two years on coal generated power right now. As for PV cells, don't forget that amorphous type cells are better at supplying power in low/dappled light conditions. Price falls with these types of cells are expected to be nothing short of spectacular over the next few years. $10.00/sq Metre installed is not unreasonable, since the cells could be incorportated into roofing materials at extremely low cost.

--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

Herc's brainfart theories based on a blend of naivity, stupidity and ignorance fall in a stinking heap, as always.

Peltier devices are hoplessly inefficient.

Can you stop being an idiot? If you stalk me in aus.electronics its the last aus group I'm posting to.

Here is my 4 battery stack that runs a lot of things, flouro lights all night even though the solar panel angle is wrong for winter.

Doing a 100 page print job!

See the $80 regulator 20AMP.

With solar you just have to budget your usage.

Most appliances are 50W - 200W

It's only HEATING and COOLING that taxes the full 2KW installed in houses.

Mind you I'll be upgrading to a $4K Amorphous System to run a Microwave and 400W heater soon.

Herc

NO they are not.

But all the 12V Eskies don't hook them up properly.

You put a liter of water on the metal part inside the esky, tilt it slightly and you can cool a bottle of coke quicker than your fridge.

They need a thermal inertia contact, don't work much just cooling the air like the $50 car eskies.

Ideal for a Evap cooler water tank (but partition the tank into a smaller section with the peltier and cloth) so it cools a lot quicker.

Herc

Sure of course there are losses in transmission but if you are wasting a surplus that might help a bit to compensate. There are some very efficient electric transmission lines about and pumping is not the only way to move water although the most used I guess. You any relation to Tony Abbot ?

R.P

ote:

ly

A

Pump during the day! 5KW solar rig every 100 meters should push a few liters up a few miles.

Australia should be pumping salt water to the desert to cool some nuclear reactors, then use the infrastructure in 10 years to pump desalinated water there.

Not that I think nuclear power is necessary, but people like their

1000W games computers and such..

Giant salt lakes in WA would evaporate into rain for Eastern States..

Herc

I'm not stalking you aywhere, you crosspost everywhere and I respond depending where I'm reading it. You make it public, I can respond. That's not stalking.

Stalking is what you did when you were convinced you were the son of God and you thought you found your "Eve".

If you used the same budgeting for grid power it would cost you less than the money you have tied up in that setup. The ongoing costs (batteries don't last all that long)would mean it would probably be no more cost effective to use solar over the grid supply.

The money spent on the solar setup could earn you more interest over a year than a fluoro and your low wattage short usage items would consume in $ off the grid.

4K buys a lot of power off the grid, especially if you economise it in the same manner as you will have to using solar.

I'm considering using something similar for my workshop, but since I can get a lot of bits and pieces for cheap or even free it's more economical to do so as a fun hobby project.

A conventional house roof is very heavy. This means it tends not to get blown away in high winds (despite being a less than ideal shape). The way the tiles overlap means it's very easy to make a roof that doesn't leak.

If you get rid of the tiles, you need to address the structural and waterproofing issues.

Sylvia.

Let's be clear that I'm looking at the total cost and total benefit, on the assumption that neither consumers nor suppliers will install batteries because the government will not require them to. If amorphous cells fall in price soon, it just brings forward the point where the economics of the grid generation as presently configured are undermined.

I'd still like to see an analysis of the long term effects on the choice of generation plant (I don't have access to the required input data), and the consequential net benefit, if any, in CO2 reduction.

If installation of solar cells doesn't in fact reduce CO2 emissions, and doesn't reduce the true cost of electricity, then the money being spent on them is just money that's being wasted.

Sylvia

Not if you ever fully discharge them or discharge Gel at a rate > C(amphour capacity)/20.

No, you do not get to discharge that capavcity in one hour.

If you start to asorb that information, then you will start to make credible statements.

solar panels are not manufactured to funtion as roofing. Caveat, Canon made some PV roof tiles about 2000. I think the major problem was wiring the blighters up.

>

hint, the riverbed doesn't think so.

I've got the chair and popcorn. Post away with the information on other, economically feasible methods of moving water.

Thank diety,I an not related to any current politician.

=3D997#12

at

ad

No you idiot! that IS the rating given. full discharge over 24 hours X 365

actually its probably 12hrs up and 12hrs down.

I quoted 1 hour to convert from AH to Watts, then used far less than

1/20 (2 weeks) in my post.

Herc

arden.com/batteryfaq/

your an idiot! 1 hour is the conversion datum

read the entire post your moron

Herc

ow

er

le

r

s,

t y d g

As pointed out this is scraremongering and gross abuse of simple facts.

you can't INCREASE CO2 by REDUCING power requirements on the coal plant.

Where is your DATA on your assumed halving of efficiency by varying the load (down)?

Herc