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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E




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Andrew
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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



Clueless.

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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I am humbled by the depth of your arguments.

8=)

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Andrew



Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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Maybe if you could figure out how your Usenet thingy works...

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
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   If he did, you'd have to kill him...


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Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 09:43:23 -0400, Phil Hobbs

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My patent attorney, years ago, informed me that the strength
of this presumption varies by patent court region.  In some,
it's almost a 50/50 push.  In others, it is very much like
you say here.

Jon

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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 That's only done to cut costs.  If component selection *was* an issue,
it would have been locked in hardware.  A jumper perhaps, a bridge on a
track, something.

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 I don't think so.  The testing would have occurred during the board
construction phase, before it has been programmed with firmware and fit
into a case.

 It appears the ONLY difference between the 50/100Mhz version is one
character in the serial number, via unencrypted, keyboard-capable RS232
communications, on a port that's user accessible.  Oh, and the sticky label.

 Call it what you want, it's sloppy, they *have* been caught with their
pants down.

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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Not necessarily. They may use the firmware itself to test a parameter such
as the bandwidth of a particular amplifier stage. This might require a high
tolerance for the 100MHz version and a lower tolerance for the 50MHz
version. Unless they are using some fancy and expensive ATE tester that
could do this it might be far easier and cheaper to use the firmware itself.

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We don't know that this is the only difference, as you say it *appears* to
be the only difference.

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Sloppy it is. Unencrypted serial comms and a simple hardware mod to bypass
firmware settings is asking for this to happen.

Mark.



Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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No, the firmware is identical in both models. They simply enter in whatever
model number at final assembly via serial or USB and the firmware detects
that and switches the I/O line that turns on/off the 50MHz filter. It also
limits the displayed timebase to 5ns instead of 2ns. All other specs are
idential.

Dave.

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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 07:12:16 +1100, "David L. Jones"

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You can't know what their manufacturing procedures are. They may
select the better scopes to be the 100 MHz versions.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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AND you can't be sure that they don't do anything more than just twiddle a
bit, can you? You are sticking up for them as if you are 100% sure they did
absolutely nothing wrong when all the evidence supports the opposite case.
IMO they should have to prove they did nothing wrong which is quite simple.
e.g., if you made inherently different performance versions of your product
surely you can prove that they perform different?

Your justifications only show that you fit in the same group as Rigol. I
won't be buying anything from you and I hope your customers will find
someone else to give their money to.
 


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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 Perhaps he doesn't appreciate that Rigol make these things in
*quantity*.  Remember, they're overclocking the ADCs, so they're cutting
costs in every way they can.

 His justification would only work on small runs, where it would
worthwhile to have someone MANUALLY plug in a port, test, program
accordingly, and stick the relevant label.

 The only cheap way to do it, is to have a production line test jig,
that automagically programs, probes and accordingly presets the
equipment to the required spec.
 All of this would be most economically viable for the numbers Rigol are
handling, and even EASIER to obscure a simple "one character" difference.

 Instead, they have this part of the communications available to the end
user, via an industry standard interface and keyboard-capable commands.

 Mind you, they *could* be doing it as I outlined above.  But the fact
remains, if it were so easy to obscure this part from the end user, why
did they almost appear to go out of their way to make it easy instead?



 Whether or not the user re-programming is, or is not allowed, likewise
if it should or should not be allowable, is rather irrelevant now.

 Whatever the reason, they *HAVE* made it easy, and this pretty much
negates any whining IMO.  That bolted horse comes to mind.

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



John Tserkezis wrote:
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   ATE & SATE have been around for decades.


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:41:13 -0500, "George Jefferson"

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My customers understand they they have to pay for firmware, because it
costs us money to develop. And they pay for extended temperature range
boards, and they pay for extended warranty, and they pay for BIST. We
offer them different things at different prices, and they have the
option to buy from anyone who makes them a better offer. I do expect
them to not hack my boards to steal our investment in firmware
development. They are professionals with ethics, and they don't.

I wouldn't sell to you, because you would.

John




Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E




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Would you charge your customers for an update in firmware that just changed
a version number but claimed to fix several bugs and improve performance?
Well that's what Rigol is effectively doing and you are supporting them. So
why do you expect me to believe that you are ethical? Of course no matter of
your pleading to be believed to be ethical would convince me. All con
artists attempt to deny their behavior and of other cons. A con artist wants
everyone to believe they are legit and must also stick up for other cons so
people don't "catch on".

So you are against the hacking of the scope but not against them selling two
identical models for two different prices under the false pretenses that
they are truly different? Why are you against it? Simple! because the
hacking revealed their improprieties.


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Of course you wouldn't... because you would be afraid I would find similar
unethical behavior in your own products. There is nothing you can say to me
that will change my attitude towards you. I have seen other posts where you
mention such unethical business practices. Maybe they were jokes but if you
are ethical then you would understand and be glad of my skepticism since it
is the only way to keep those that are unethical honest.


 


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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Has anybody done a bit by it comparison between firmware in the 50MHz
unit and the 100MHz unit to confirm this?

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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Probably not because it is bleedingly obvious that it was IDENTICAL from the
simplicity of the hack that has been explained in detail. If you have
actually
looked at the eevblog and are still asking this question then you are a bit
thick.
Also, Rigol have apparently reacted and changed the firmware to stop
the simple hack. So all roads lead to Rome, so to speak.



 



Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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It certainly isn't bleedin' obvious unless it has been done. All that
has been proved it that the hack appears to give similar results.