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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E




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Hmm.. so Rigol does not have an implicit contract with it's customers?

From there website:

"RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES, INC. is an emerging leader in the test and measurement
field. Our current product line consists of Digital Oscilloscopes,
Function/Arbitrary Waveform Generators, Digital Multimeters, Virtual
Instruments with LXI compatibility and more.
    Business Philosophy: Focus on our customers current and future needs by
creating innovative, high quality products that deliver great value. "

So by "focus" and "needs" they mean cheat and lie? Oh, this isn't a legal
contract, right? is that what you are going to hide behind? Do implicit
moral and/or ethical contracts exist? No, why not? Are you in favor of
having them? No? Why not?

So, what about this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unjust_enrichment

 


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E




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Do they not owe me honesty? Do they have a right to lie to me so they can
benefit themselves? If so then then your world is a sorry piece of shit and
people like you are the reasons why the world sucks. Your mentality always
leads to cheating then to stealing and much worse things. You can't lie a
little to benefit yourselves and hurt others in the process and expect that
it will result in a humanity that will go very far. Eventually you'll end up
with some form of anarchy because everyone is trying to hurt everyone else.

This is what capitalism has turned into. People like you have abused and
manipulated a perfectly good system(but structurally faulty because it does
nothing to prevent it from being corrupted by your kind).  Because you live
such a pathetic existence you put no value in humanity. It's all about you
isn't it? It's called NPD and you might want to get some meds for it.

Rigol does owe me something. They owe me honesty. In fact we have laws
against such fraudulent practices and you can pretend all you want that we
don't. Your no different than a common crook and I bet you "sell" stuff on
ebay to make a living. The kinda person that sends you a box of rocks when
they were suppose to ship you a computer. Does it make you feel good taking
advantage of people? Do you feel powerful?  Does it make up for your all the
other things you suck at in life?

How you going to feel when your daughter is taken advantage of by someone
like you? I bet you will enjoy it? You'll probably picture yourself doing
her. In fact you've probably already done her since you care nothing about
her or anyone else.  What about when your wife is killed by a drunk, no
doubt like yourself, that only cares about getting wasted every weekend and
disregards every one else's safety?

Of course I have no doubt that it wouldn't bother you unless in some way it
diminished your own self-gratification. Of course as long as you can do that
to other people it's fine.

People like you have a mental disorder and it seems the only sure fire way
to prevent you from negatively affecting humanity(which is much more
important than your pathetic useless existence) is by removing all brain
activity... Of course we'll need to find it first.


 


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



"George Jefferson" >
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** That took so much longer than my pithy  " You lying pile of arrogant shit
"  assessment.

 But maybe it was worthwhile for the additional detail and explanations.

 All water off a duck's back to the likes of Andrew, unfortunately.



.....  Phil



Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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Wher is the dishonesty on Rigol side?

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Where did they lie?

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Yes, it is all about me. It is always about "me" for everyone, including
you.

<snip>

Wow, you've got a really powerful stuff somewhere, haven't you?

Should I feel pity or envy? I am not really sure...

--
Andrew



Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E




Andrew wrote:
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BTW, you are preaching to AlwaysWrong troll. He is... Well, he is
always, always wrong.

One of the professors that taught me in the university used to say:
"Don't argue with an idiot. It only makes more difficult for the other
people to see a difference between you and him"


Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Fri, 2 Apr 2010 20:23:54 +1100, "David L. Jones"

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Too bad that, with all this ranting, this thread is missing a couple
of interesting technical issues re: the varicap bandwidth limiter and
the compromises it forces.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 14:31:52 -0700, John Larkin

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I think that _is_ interesting.  Discuss it, please.

Jon

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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I find that funny considering it was you who started the ranting and also
continued it ad nauseam.
So why don't you just stop ranting and actually discuss that technical
aspect if it interests you?
Or is this just your way of trying to weasel out of the rather silly hole
you found yourself in? :->

Dave.

--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



"David L. Jones"
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** Weasel Larkin is intent on digging that hole all the way the Sha Hee
Town, Beijing .

 His ugly face will pop up through Rigol's floor at any minute.



.....   Phil









Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E




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lol... I'm sure he'll fit right in!


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:42:48 +1000, "David L. Jones"

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Not so. I pointed out a possible legal issue, and brought the
interesting but unresolved issue of how one amortizes and prices
things, like firmware, that have no incremental cost to manufacture.
Most perple here seem to feel that it's a ripoff to charge for such
things, and a minority feel, as I do, that Rigol did nothing wrong and
provides very good price:performance for both models. Rigol is like
someone who used to leave their front door unlocked, until someone
wandered in and stole something, so now they have to lock it.

But they should have used different LC filters for the 50 and 100 MHz
signal trains. They probably underdamped the 100 MHz response so that
the 50 Mhz wouldn't be too obviously first order; ugly compromise. The
20 MHz thing is very first order, with a long droopy rise.

I wonder if there's any harmonic or im distortion from the single
varicap. FFTs would tell. Are the 20 MHz rise and fall times
different? I'll take a loom when I get back to work.

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You might have considered the dynamics of the varicap thing yourself.
I guess I just don't like cracks.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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I think it's more like Rigol sells houses, and you bought a two-bedroom house
(although you're aware they also sell three-bedroom houses)... and one day you
notice (or Dave Jones metnions that) there's another door in your home.
There's no lock on that door, no sign on it saying, "keep out!," etc.  Your
ne'er-do-well liberal democrat son moves back home after flunking out of his
liberal studies program at the local college and you get to thinking... having
that kid spend his nights in his own room rather than sleeping on the couch in
the living room every night would be nice... I wonder what's behind that door?

:-)


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 11:17:56 -0700, "Joel Koltner"

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Not entirely the same. It costs money to build rooms, but it costs
nothing to enable IP. Both have market value.

But why didn't they do the 50 and even 20 MHz bandwidth limits
digitally? They have 1G samples/second to work with. There are some
saturation issues that might be best handled with analog limiting, but
this *is* a cheap scope.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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One possible reason is that with an analogue bandwidth limit, signals
that would be aliased get attenuated before sampling.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 14:30:50 -0400, Phil Hobbs

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you
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having
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door?
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But it's a 1 GHz sample rate. If it's analog limited to 100 MHz, they
can do most anything with it. Decimating won't create aliases, will
it?

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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house
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That depends on the steepness of the input filtering. It will need to
roll-off more than 48dB not to have any aliasing products at fs/2. I
doubt they decimate. 2GB/s is a lot to handle by the low cost FPGA
they use (Altera Cyclone IIRC). I strongly doubt digital realtime
filtering is feasible.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:08:34 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel)
wrote:

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house
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you
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his
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having
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couch in
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Whatever aliases the 100 MHz version has, the 50 MHz mode won't be
much better. My 1052 amazed me by having user-programmable
lowpass/highpass/bandpass filtering. If the FPGA can move 1 Gs/s data,
it shouldn't be hard to implement a simple FIR filter to knock 100 MHz
response down to 50. The filter wouldn't be realtime in the sense that
only display data needs to be filtered, and I suspect displays aren't
updated all that often.

They already seem to have the digital filtering they need.

John


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