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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:14:03 -0700 (PDT), George Herold

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It has very clean transient response as shipped, at the 50 (or 70) MHz
bandwidth. The hacked version is ratty looking. I wouldn't do the hack
even if it was morally and legally fine.

This is a very nice little scope, superb for the price. It has loads
of more features than a comparable Tek at around 1/3 the price.

Why Jones would choose to hurt Rigel is a mystery to me.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:53:03 -0700, John Larkin


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What makes you think he hurt Rigol? They've have probably just sold
dozens of scope to people who wouldn't have otherwise bought a scope
from a Chinese maker.

Most companies will continue to buy what's guaranteed.

He might have hurt or helped them.


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:19:00 -0400, Spehro Pefhany

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I'm sure that some people who would have bought the 100M version will
buy the 50 and hack it. Not many, I expect, mostly amateurs. But he
chose to make this option available to the public where Rigol did not.

So why did he do it?

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:30:03 -0700, John Larkin

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So now it's _not_ "serious money" like you originally claimed?
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So what?

It's just like if somebody wrote a book with an ending I didn't like and
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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:08:45 -0500, John Fields

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If it's, say, 100 scopes hacked at a loss of $400 each, until Rigol
makes the firmware more secure (which will also cost money to do)
that's $40K. I don't know if $40K is "serious" money that matters to
Rigol, or to you. $40K is fairly serious to me.

How would you feel if Jones hacked one of your products and cost you
$40K? But I think you don't do firmware, so the question is probably
moot.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:19:08 -0700, John Larkin

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Jeez, John, I see you still haven't quit being a cheater...

1052E's go for $595 max _retail_, and 1102E's go for $795 max, also
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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:16:26 -0500, John Fields

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                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Gosh, maybe you do have a sense of humor.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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:)



Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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It would probably be 100 scopes that they would not have sold normally
to people who would not buy the 100MHz one anyway.
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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Mar 31, 11:53A0%am, John Larkin
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Oh I don't plan on hacking it.  I just figured that there might be a
tick up in sales of the 50MHz version and I should get mine before
they sell out.  And yeah the pulse response looked nice.  (I also like
that it's a bit faster than the spec.)  I'm not sure about the
rattiness of the 100MHz response.. after all the 100MHz TEK pulse
looked ratty too and it might have been that Dave was hitting it with
a raggy pulse to begin with.  (Sorry Dave, I don't mean to dis your
bench test skills.)

I think Dave likes Rigol and I'm not sure his hack will hurt sales.  I
would guess it's only a small fraction of users that would want the
hack anyway.  I would bet.. though I don't know how to prove it.. that
Dave has been good for Rigol sales.  (He is certainly responsible for
my purchase of one.)

George H.

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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I know for a fact that my (positive) review and pushing of the Rigol scope
on my blog and other places has directly resulted in at least several
hundred sales (people email me and thank me for it almost daily). My review
of the Rigol has been viewed over 15,000 times, so I'd be surprised if I'm
not responsible for sales in the thousands, directly or indirectly. I'm
probably Rigol's biggest independent public supporter.

BTW, I did not come up with the solution and expose it, it's been public
info on various forums for weeks before I did my video, and was even
featured on Hackaday. And I have just heard that Rigol have already fixed
the firmware before I did the video.

John seems obseesed with "why I did it". Err, in case he missed it, I run an
electronics engineering video blog, and have had several episodes on the
Rigol, so I and many of my viewers are curious about how Rigol (and others)
design and market their products. I originally suggested the possibilty of a
mod out of curiosity, so it's a update on what my viewers have discovered
and have already shared with the world. There is actually nothing new in my
video.
I'm not depriving Rigol of anything, my blog is educational, and once again
I believe I'm helping promote their products. To think my blog would hinder
sales is ridiculous.

But given that Rigol are (or were) the 2nd biggest oscilloscope manufacturer
in the world (they might be #1 now), my little blog is hardly going to
amount to a hill of beans in terms of (I believe positive) sales for them
anyway.

John needs to get off his ridiculous US DCMA hobby horse.

Dave.

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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 08:30:16 +1100, "David L. Jones"

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Didn't you also do a blog about Rigol "overclocking" their ADCs?
You've made a minor career out of trashing their scopes.

I like my 1052 so far.

John



Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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Yes I did.
Once again, it wasn't new information exposed by me, and it wasn't a
negative blog. It was an informational blog clarifying an interesting
design/build aspect of this scope, and actually had a positive spin. I used
words like "great value for money", "excellent quality", "smart", "clever",
and "professional" etc.
FYI, I actually approached the GM of Rigol USA about it before I did the
blog, asking them to clarify and present their side of it. They did not
respond. But you'd know all that if you actually watched the video.
I know the GM reads this forum, and has even contributed in the past, and I
have had previous correspondance with him about my postive review of the
scope which they liked.

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That's laughable. I have been one the biggest supporters of their scopes,
and am almost certainly directly responsible for more sales of them than any
other individual.
Your viewpoint is so myopic it's truly amazing.
Keep digging that hole by all means, but be careful, because as Phil said,
you might pop up in China.

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Good for you, so do I. And so do the probably thousands who have bought one
based on my promotion and recommendation of it over the last year and a bit.

Dave.

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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:53:03 -0700, John Larkin

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It's not Dave's job to protect Rigol.

Whether he hurt them or not is a question that isn't clear,
nor answered yet.  If Rigol is forced to make further
modifications because of Dave, and only because of Dave, then
you may have a point on that narrow ledge.  But it still
doesn't mean Dave has any responsibility to protect them from
such actions they may later choose to take.

Besides the issue that Dave is acting as an independent, free
agent and may choose what is in his own better interests, he
cannot possibly be expected to consult some personal Ouija
board about the mind of Rigol about their own business
interests.  Rigol can fend for themselves.  And they are
perfectly able to do so.

In any case, I generally prefer a world where knowledge is
freely shared, education valued, and the consequences lived
with more than one where knowledge ie metered out.  Dave gave
information, which is fine.  You did too when you commented
about the "clean transient response" and the fact that you
don't think it is wise to hack it for your own needs.  Which
is good information, as well.  Then just let the end user
decide for themselves what is better for them.  As it should
be.

Jon

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:30:53 -0700, Jon Kirwan

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He sure didn't protect them. He apparently organized an effort to hack
their scopes and cost them money, and went public with it.

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Maybe they have lawyers to help them fend for themselves.

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Jones still hasn't said why he did it.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:04:13 -0700, John Larkin

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What in the hell is wrong with you, Larkin?

He certainly isn't the criminal you make him out to be and he most
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