Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E - Page 14

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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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The step response is pretty ugly. The step response of my unmodded
1052E is very nice.

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A nice Gaussian step?

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Compared to a clean scope, it does. They are made in China too. I
don't know if Tek designs them or just rebrands.

I also don't know how clean a signal Dave applied.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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 >
 > Kinda sucks ?
 > Did you watch the eevblog ??? I don't think you have the slightest
clue
 > about
 > what fast signals really look like. The higher the bandwidth the
messier
 > they look as various resonance effects in the measurement circuit
 > are revealed - use a 1Ghz 'scope and they REALLY suck.
 > The modded Rigol compared very well with a 100Mhz Tektronix TDS
1012.

You're telling Larkin about high speed? What planet are YOU from?

GB2%

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:03:51 -0700 John Larkin

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Just out of curiosity John, would you think the same thing applies to the
kids who overclock their processors? After all, Intel makes less money on
the lower clocked CPU chips - is this depriving Intel from deserved
revenue? Note that I'm not making any judgment on whether this is right or
wrong...

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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I am aware of no laws against overclocking. Intel most likely bins
production parts for speed, so if you overclock a CPU you degrade
timing margins at your own risk. The Freescale 3.3 volt version of the
MC68332 is guaranteed for 16 MHz. I've verified that they work to 45,
and run them at 20. I don't think that I've broken any laws, and I
doubt that Freescale minds, and I assume the risk.

Intel may well sell 1.3 GHz parts as 1 GHz parts, especially as their
manufacturing yields improve over time. It's their choice as to what
they promise and what they charge for it.

John





Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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But according to your own logic you keep Freescale from selling you a
faster processor and therefore cutting their profits!

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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Sure? How about buying a whole bread and only being allowed to eat
half of it?

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I don't understand why they make it so easy to upgrade their hardware
through software. Tek's logic analyzer modules are also relatively
easy to upgrade.

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Sure about that? I'm not so convinced about the effective bit
resolution and the sampling jitter on the Rigol scopes.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Mar 30, 8:03A0%pm, John Larkin
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Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.  IBM tried marketing
computers with a similar tactic, shipping two models that were
internally
identical, but one had twice the memory of the other.  If  you paid
for
the 'upgrade' a technician installed a jumper to enable the full
memory.

Time passes, and instead of lease-only, they sold a few computers.
The customers then installed the jumper, and sued (or threatened to
sue)
IBM when the field service tech wanted to uninstall it.   IBM lost.

You sell it, the customer can modify at will.   DMCA is perhaps gonna
change this, but it's unclear how; it may take another decade before
it
gets a court test.   (for the non-US crowd, DMCA "digital millennium
copyright act" is a controversial statute that protects/creates/
modifies
all intellectual property in unlovely ways)

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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So are all the overclockers in the USA in jail for depriving Intel of
revenue by not buying a higher grade CPU for more $?

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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No. Overclocking is not illegal.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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But neither is hacking your own bought 50MHz scope. I can't see how your
views are consistent here.

Mark.



Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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I'm not talking about "my views", I'm talking about the law. The US
has a rather draconian anti-hack law, DCMA, and Dave et al may have
conspired to violate it. Of course, he doesn't live here.

My view is that it was a tasteless thing to do.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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The key word is *may*. I don't believe any law has been broken because in
reality anyone who mods something would not be breaking the law as such
unless the reason is to defraud. However, what they get after the hack is
not guaranteed to work. It's an unofficial hack, no guarantees it'll be
stable or anything else. Furthermore if no EULA is signed, no agreement is
made not to modify or reverse engineer for personal use, no attempt is made
to sell or pass it off as a 100MHz scope, there can be no attempt to
defraud. They are not doing anything but using the hardware they were sold
and running it 'out of spec', and for no financial gain. The argument comes
down to you thinking this is 'tasteless'. But presumably you think that
overclocking ADCs beyond their rated spec, not buying proper rated parts and
flogging that as a guaranteed working product is OK because that's 'not
illegal'? I find your position somewhat un-tenable.

Mark.



Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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Is it possible the 50 Mhz models are rejected 100mhz versions that may
have not past some test at 100Mhz bw ? Units that wouldn't pass at
100 Mhz and be ok at 50 Mhz, would be waste just through the boards out.

  Personally, I would get a little upset knowing they would charge an
extra $300, with nothing more than a firmware setting change.. I would
expect different internals for that much difference. But If it was like
  I suggested, then maybe some users can be happy with the possible
defected operation at 100 mhz







Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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Is buying a piece of equipment and modifying it yourself to use yourself
without trying to profit from it at all a criminal act in the USA? Does that
mean you can't put go faster stripes on your car if the manufacturer had a
version that had a similar product? Remember there are no warranties with
such a modified product, usually the disclaimer states any modification or
tampering simply voids the warranty. As long as you don't directly profit
from that modification e.g. by selling them on I can't see the problem.

Software is another issue. With software you have a license to use not
necessarily to own, and there may well be clauses that prohibit reverse
engineering or using multiple installs, but these are clauses in a contract
that are clearly stated at the time of purchase. Not so when buying things
like scopes on eBay.

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I say! Sending encrypted packets over serial would be a good start. Also
don't allow a simple hardware mod to allow switching between modes by
bypassing any firmware change would be another. These are pretty basic
mistakes, the only result is a potential hack and loss of revenue by not
selling as many 100MHz versions. BTW this doesn't mean the users that have
done this mod have deprived Rigol at all, they are now using a device that
is now out of warranty and, more importantly,  has no guarantee of
performance. As long as they don't directly profit from that by reselling
and claiming 100MHz operation I can't see how they have deprived anyone.

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Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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This url does not open on my seamonkey but does on IE6 (with a warning
to update browser)(which I did not do)

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



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It has nothing to do with a infections. Youtube has been posting that
warning for a while now. They are using/going to use features that are
not supported in older browsers..

   I had a choice to update to IE8 or FireFox on this older PC here, I
went with Firefox. Seems to be ok..



Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


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You can also upgrade high end Agilent scopes buying the "feature" you
want, which turns out to be just a string of characters to be typed
somewhere. It is funny to know that you already own the required
hardware to go several GHz further! Now _that_ would be interesting to post!

Pere

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


David L. Jones Inscribed thus:

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Priceless.  ;-)

--
Best Regards:
                Baron.