Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E - Page 13

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary

Translate This Thread From English to

Threaded View
Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


Quoted text here. Click to load it

If the hardware wasn't capable of 100MHz, then the software wouldn't
make it so.  Therefore, flipping a software switch is just like cutting
a lock.  If it needs a completely different load of software to do
100MHz, then the manufacturer is playing games with the law.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Define "hack".  And yes, it is probably illegal, and if he's really
hacking it by my definition of hack, then wrongly so.

If he's taking a software load from another Rigol scope, and that load
is under copyright, then that's going beyond hacking.  If he's finding a
way to reach in there and flip a switch to turn on the 100MHz
capability, then that should be legal.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Arresting a career criminal will cost him serious revenue -- should we
refrain from that?

Preventing Kennith Lay from raping Enron would have cost him serious
revenue, had someone done it -- had it been legally possible, should we
have refrained?

Making food manufacturers print lists of ingredients on their products,
and insisting that what they produce is safe no doubt costs them serious
revenue -- should we stop?

The digital copyright protection act gives IP providers extreme and
egregious tools to extort money from consumers, and repealing it would
cost them serious revenue when they use it to do things that are just
plain wrong.  Should we refrain from repealing it?

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E



Quoted text here. Click to load it

How does DCMA extort money from customers? If you don't like a product
and its price/terms, don't buy it. DCMA prevents you from using a
computer to violate the contract you made with the seller, and from
spreading around copies of his IP.

If you want to repeal DCMA, write to your Congressman or whatever. Get
rid of the patent office while you're at it.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Rigel 7?

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms



Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On a sunny day (Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:14:55 -0700) it happened John Larkin

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Let us all be grateful, as this will a have cumulative effect.
Tek will notice that he price for a 100 MHz BW 1Gs scope has come down to 500 $
or so.
And that with a color display and nice labels on the buttons on top of that...
So it will increase competition, and bring prices down.
Those are clearly artificially high.

You can turn your argument around too, like:
 'the criminals at Rigol ask 400 $ more for the same scope.'

I wonder if the board is the same as the one that has the logic analyser
connector on front
and if adding a connector and making a hole in the front would give it even more
features.

IRC you ordered one, and now claim you will not upgrade,
that sounds a bit idiotic to me.
As to the the 'secrets of your designs', some are all over usenet,
you posted them or got them from here, complete with pictures of details.

That brings me to the point that we could all just as well publish source
of firmware and software, the people who have no time will
buy your hardware, others will improve your work, everybody benefits,
except the billy gates type, but he has enough for coffee anyways so who cares.

There is a lot more to be said on this subject, but anyways,
I recommend people to record that video before it vanishes from youtube, I
recorded the sound.
Soundtrack has all the info you need.

Digital world.
I wonder what will happen when somebody finally comes up with a 'replicator' as
in startrek.


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:31:12 GMT, Jan Panteltje

Quoted text here. Click to load it
or so.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
connector on front
Quoted text here. Click to load it
more features.
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I paid them for a 50 MHz scope. I will not hack their firmware to make
it into a 100 MHz scope (with rotten step response)

John






Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On a sunny day (Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:16:11 -0700) it happened John Larkin

Quoted text here. Click to load it

You need a brain scan, or check EMI and stay clear of those high Tesla fields :-)
In a resent paper researchers at MIT magnetically stimulated the area behind the
right ear,
while asking people questions about subjects where morally right and wrong
needed to be evaluated.
They found that by interfering with just that one spot people would give very
different
evaluations of right and wrong:
 Researchers were able to alter people's perceptions of right and wrong by
 applying magnetic stimulation to the brain.
 http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2010/03/12/0914826107.DCSupplemental/pnas.200914826SI.pdf

As to the scope:
I sort of liked the step response.
I also liked that bleak ugly looking BW tek display next to it.
Compare prices.

Would do fine for me.
Here that scope is 500 Euro, exactly 600 $, cannot make one for that that looks
so nice.




Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


Quoted text here. Click to load it
I would not mind betting that they make more revenue, not less as a
result of this discussion.

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E




John Larkin wrote:

Quoted text here. Click to load it

:))))))

According to your logic, CPU overclocking is a crime.
Although that 20 vs 50 MHz nonsense doesn't really make any difference
and probably not worth hassle.

But, why varicap and that lousy circuit? Looks like Rigol analog
designers don't have a clue... They are probably as unexperienced as
their programmers...


Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com






Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


Quoted text here. Click to load it

If the 100 MHz scope flunks the speed test and is going to be restricted
to 50 MHz (with appropriate sampling rate), why make the customer pay
the 3 dB penalty for the wider bandwidth?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E




Phil Hobbs wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Quite often, the things are getting tossed into the different bins not
because of a difference in quality, but for marketing, legal, inventory
reduction or whatever non-technical reasons. There are many examples of
that. But the question is not about moral/legal implications.

The idea of using varicap in the scope analog front end doesn't make
much sense to me. What do you think?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:47:52 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky

Quoted text here. Click to load it

I think it makes sense if it works, as it seems to do.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


Quite orthogonal to all of the commentary so far... when viewing the
YouTube video of the hack, I accidentally turned on the
"closed-caption decoder" feature in the playback (up-arrow at the
lower right corner of the window).

The result was... well, interesting.  The closest analogy I can come
up with at the moment is "beatnik free verse".  I think the
auto-transcription feature being used has a problem with David's
accent :-)

--
Friends of Jade Warrior home page:  http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:47:52 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky =

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Well, there are many 'scopes out there with input bandwidth limiting,20%
quite often at 20 MHz.  Look around.  The circuit was put there to do20%
that function.  Finding an alternate use for it to penetrate another20%
market that does not really have use for a full 100 MHz 'scope seems20%
like smart marketing.  Leaving the barn door open was not smart.

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:00:33 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky

Quoted text here. Click to load it

In fact it's not. According to my logic, something is a crime if a
country has laws that declare it to be a crime.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Do you think that it doesn't work? And that their firmware was coded
by inexperienced programmers? How many oscilloscopes have you designed
and manufactured and marketed?

Looking at the transient response at 100 MHz, which kinda sucks, I
wonder if the 50 and 100 MHz scopes are indeed identical except for
firmware.

John


Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E




John Larkin wrote:

Quoted text here. Click to load it

There are many small details which indicate that the software was
written by indiots.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

BTW, one of the things that I design are the analog front ends for
scopes and like. Some with BW to 1 GHz. The idea of using varicap just
doesn't make any sense to me.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

"Good - Better - Best" marketing principle is old as a World.


Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com

Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:08:28 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky

Quoted text here. Click to load it

I've only had mine a couple of weeks, but I haven't seen any problems.
What are they?

The menus take a minute to figure out (and of cource I haven't cracked
the manual) but generally make sense. The cursor logic is a little
annoying.

I like the selectable filtering, specifically the lowpass. The digital
filters aren't perfect, but the slower lowpass settings are the most
useful to me and behave well.

For around $550, with memory stick slot and RS232 and USB, it's
stunning. I'm going to get one for our cabin in Truckee. You never
know when you'll need a scope.

John



Re: Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:08:28 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky

Quoted text here. Click to load it

I don't have one, but from what John is saying, it may not be a "all
the same hardware, just different firmware" but may instead be "all
the same firmware, but not all the same hardware!"  The 100 MHz
version may have different component choices, even if the PCB is the
same.  When you build out the unit, you enable the correct hardware
toggles to match the unit you are installing on...

If you have one of both units, you could probably find out!

Charlie