Tingles from DVD players

Hey f****it, who's the pot calling the kettle black?

Bloody Audiorasps creating flame wars themselves by starting agro. :(

I can faintly remember these behavioural traits from primary school

until the advent of usenet, the adult form was most commonly found in parliament.

Cheers Terry

Jasen Betts wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@clunker.homenet:

If the connector shells at each end are connected together, they can connect the frame earth of the two devices. Not always a good thing.

G

--
 "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the 
  entrails of the last priest." (Diderot, paraphrasing Meslier)

Starting agro ? ? ? You'd know it if I did.

"Jasen Betts" = just another anencephalic Kiwi

** Read the whole thread - FUCKWIT !

** My copy of AS 3100 says so as well.

" It will be apparent that double-insulated appliance built in accordance with these principles must not be earthed."

It also says the "Double Insulated - Do Not Earth " warning is compulsory.

** If you actually ever learn to read one day, Jasen, it will be a miracle.

" Earthed" = " mains earthed" = connected to the AC ground via a standard

3 pin plug and 3 pin outlet.

....... Phil

snip

In a reply to my post just yesterday you stated

---------------------------------

** The warning notice is not compulsory. "Only the use of the "double square" symbol or the words "Double Insulated" are. "

---------------------------------

AS/NZS 3100 is not the applicable standard for domestic entertainment equipment. It is used for equipment that does not have a specific standard.

AS/NZS 60065:2000 Audio, video and similar electronic apparatus-Safety requirements (IEC 60065:1998 MOD)

is the appropriate standard for this discussion.

snip

-- Regards Malcolm Remove sharp objects to get a valid e-mail address

"Malcolm Moore"

** So ?

You made NO reply to the other answers I so thoughtfully gave you.

Class 2 construction appliances are inherently much safer than class 1 types.

What users do that COMPROMISES that additional safety is beyond the control of makers or authorities.

The issue is one of legal liability on the part of someone who elects to earth a class 2 item .

In some cases, doing that would be equivalent to murder.

........ Phil

Tranlation: Philthy isn't allowed in.

Bye. Jasen

But, if the device is double insulated, then wont the exposed frames be doubly isolated from the mains earth? IS this not why you get the tingle? the whole frame is floating about mains earth because it is not connected to mains earth.

Or perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps there is a secret earth connection to double insultated gear that the manufacturers just accidently forgot to tell people about. Perhaps the manufacturers decided to make you mains earth magically float up. Or perhpas they just built in some electric shocking mechanism for fun.

I remember daealing with a sparky when i was a 1st year apprentice. He just couldn't figure out why, that if i was not connected to mains earth or to neutral i could touch active and not get electrocuted. I even gave him personal proof once. I then got a multimeter and put one probe in active, and the other in the air, and asked him why it did not give any significant reading, until i stuck the other probe in neutral or earth. He still did not get it.

It all stemmed from the discussion of the use of isolation transformers..

more frequently in mental institutions.

you explained how connecting a class two appliance to a live conductor could be dangerous, I didn't see any explanation of how earthing the appliance was bad. (except earth loops)

that seems odd, perhaps because it's taken out of context.

it must be wrong then... I see many devices with the double squares but no "do not earth"

I know how to read an ohmmeter and it tells me the outer conductor of the anterena socket is conneted to the earth pin on the mains lead.

If you don't believe me you can come over here aand measure it or dig up a schematic somewhere, the K9 was once quite common.

Bye. Jasen

by

Ukip

after

bigot"

Hey - perhaps lawyers aren't so bad after all!

When I change the topic, it has not been with the intention of winning or avoiding "loosing" (or even losing) an argument. I don't like being wrong but the only way around that is to learn more. If I think I have nothing to add on a particular topic then I don't write anything about it. If it leads me to think about a different topic that interests me then I will ask or comment about that. You have posted some thought-provoking replies and I thank you for that. I know more than I used to about a couple of things.

I think you have managed ok.

To be honest, I hadn't considered the possibility that the serial port might be isolated from the circuitry inside the laptop.

this one isn't.

Bye. Jasen

Fair comment. You have chosen to delete part of your previous post to which I was replying. I'll put it back in.

Your use of a hyphen before "so just ignore the issue." led me to believe that was your view. On reading it again I realise you were attributing that to the manufacturers. That sentence would have been clearer with a comma or even no punctuation there. My apologies for misunderstanding.

Which is exactly why there is no prohibition on interconnecting earthed and double insulated home entertainment equipment.

As in my other post, the legal liability arises from miswiring a plug, not from interconecting different classes of equipment.

-- Regards Malcolm Remove sharp objects to get a valid e-mail address

So you have contradicted yourself in quoting from the Standard you are relying upon. Hardly the tactic to use to convince people of your position on this matter.

Your use of the title AS 3100 perhaps indicates you are relying on an old version, it has been AS/NZS 3100 since at least 2002 when the ccurrent version was promulgated.

I have rectified this in another post.

No. The issue is one of legal liability on the part of someone who elects to miswire the plug on a Class 1 item, with phase and earth swapped, and then doesn't do required testing before it is placed in service. The equipment would be just as dangerous if it were used stand alone.

In most jurisdictions that would be manslaughter or culpable homicide or similar. Still a serious charge.

-- Regards Malcolm Remove sharp objects to get a valid e-mail address

Thanks, that was quite interesting. Thanks also to the other posters,

I wish that standards like these which have to all intents and purposes become legally binding, were automatically placed in the public domain. Imagine if all laws were as difficult to access - the public would not tolerate that. Chris

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 02:37:01 +1200, Terry Given put finger to keyboard and composed:

Since when does a lawyer do anything for a "bit" of money?

Just to put things in perspective, consider that the trial of Slobodan Milosevic, the Balkan butcher, had been going for more than 4 years at a cost to taxpayers of several hundreds of millions of dollars before he put a merciful end to the legal gravy train by topping himself. In that same amount of time the world managed to start and finish a World War, and I completed an engineering degree.

- Franc Zabkar

--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.