The downside to internet shopping

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Just before Xmas I ordered some stuff from a reputable *Australian*
retailer. I usually use Paypal for online purchases as it means that my
details (other than address of course) do not go near the actual seller.
In this case though, they only accepted credit cards, but, as they were
local, well known in their field, and used SSL, I used my Visa card.

Next day I got a call from ANZ Visa security wanting to know whether I
had ordered $250 of perfume from Hong Kong  and $150 of cigars from the
US. I'm glad that their algorithms were on the ball, the transactions
have been cancelled as has the card.

I don't suspect the retailer, but when I called them to report that
their site may have been compromised, they didn't seem unduly bothered.

This is the only time that I have ever had any problems, but it shows
that the pirates are out there.

Re: The downside to internet shopping
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I usually use Paypal for online purchases
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actual seller. In this case though, they
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field, and used SSL, I used my Visa card.
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ordered $250 of perfume from Hong Kong and
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the transactions have been cancelled as has
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may have been compromised, they didn't
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pirates are out there.

My Dontronics merchant account is with the CBA bank, and the transaction is
always between the customer and the CBA bank
for credit card sales.

We don't see the customers credit card numbers. In fact the CBA insist that all
transactions are done this way. The
merchant doesn't get involved in obtaining or recording numbers at all. Any
merchant that collects numbers these days is
doing it wrong, and asking for trouble.

I'm surprised any Australian bank would still allow this method. Perhaps they
aren't aware that the merchant is
collecting numbers, if this is the case.

It is really a matter of the CC number being stolen from the bank's data base,
or the retailer's data base. I would be
asking some serious questions.

Recently added security for credit card transactions on the internet:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visa and MasterCard have a security measure that you need to follow up with your
Bank to get the password. It is called
"Verify By Visa" and "SecureCode" respectively.
To read more about this security measure go to:
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/faqs-ordering-questions.html#vbv

Cheers Don...



--
Don McKenzie

Site Map:            http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
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Re: The downside to internet shopping
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In this case, the CC number and the security number had to be entered
into the checkout form. Whether this data stayed on the merchant's
system I don't know, but it at least passed through it. With Paypal you
are redirected to Paypal's own site and the data does not pass through
the merchant site at all. I have never seen a checkout where I was
redirected to a bank site to enter my CC details.

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I'll check into that.

Re: The downside to internet shopping
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It doesn't matter what site served up the form for you to fill, what
matters is where the form is submitted to. Did you check that (in the
HTML source code, look at the form tag)?

Clifford Heath.

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checkout form. Whether this data stayed
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Paypal you are redirected to Paypal's own
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seen a checkout where I was redirected to
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This is where my form ends up:
https://migs.mastercard.com.au/vpcpay

Of course if you try the URL, it will give errors because the transaction
details are not provided on entry, but
Mastercard's secure Australian gateway is the path for all of my credit card
payments, no matter what brand.

If you click on the security key in your browser, you will see that the secure
certificate is owned by Mastercard Worldwide.

The CC data is entered on the Mastercard site, and not on my site.

So if you have an ANZ Visa card, and purchased from Dontronics, it would go
through the Mastercard secure site, and end
up in my CBA account, and I would never see or record your CC numbers.

Clifford mentions this type of "protection" in the following message also.

Cheers Don...



--
Don McKenzie

Site Map:            http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
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Re: The downside to internet shopping
...
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One reason to keep the credit card rather than convert to debit cards.
At least the credit card covers losses if you report bogus transactions.

The only fraud I came across happened a couple years back.
I'd done business with a small outfit in Montreal, Canada,
and all had gone well.

But a few months later I bought something from them again.
After about 1 wk with no word about the order they claimed my address
"wasn't verified" and I had to send them faxes of old bills and
bank transactions.

I went over the obvious reasons why their request wouldn't achieve
anything about verifying my address -- bits of paper can be created
easy as anything. In any case, the "verified" part of the problem
was associated with any address outside the US -- even their own
address as it turned out was marked "unverified" by Paypal.

Anyway... they held my payment to random for several weeks,
refusing to give in. The initial story my order would "go faster"
if I supplied the docs moved on to "the papers are required
for the order to go through" and then to "this has always has been
company policy".

Anyway, after I raised a complaint with Paypal (as usual, no help
at all) the credit card company (yes, they were interested and wanted
all details, but I never heard back from them), my bank (where it promptly
went into the bitbucket) and the better business bureau in Monreal
(similar response to talking to the business) they cancelled the order without
notice, meaning I lost a couple hundred AUD because of currency fluctionations
in the intervening 2-3 months.

A few weeks after this my card was seen paying student fees
and paying for cable TV  in suburban Montreal -- by co-incidence
about 10 km from the registered address of the business.

Even there, I lost out a little. While the actual amount
was corrected credited back, my bank (NAB) insisted I had to pay the
interest and various fees (international purchase, etc) on it.
Paypal also took a non-refundable nibble for converting $A->$C and back again.

Some months later (after nothing seemed to happen about getting
anything back for all the fees and losses on the cancelled
transaction) I was contacted by someone at the business in Canada who
identified themselves as some kind of "supervisor" and he was
(as in your case) not at all fussed about the actual problems.
Just re-emphasised that everthing they had done, including the
primitive phishing attempt, was their standard business practice.

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So do the debit cards.

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You should have told them both to go play in the traffic. Credit card
fraud is perpetrated against the card issuer, not the card holder. You
were not liable for any part of the cost.

And remember, a credit card account is merely the card issuer's view
about how much you owe. You don't have to agree with their view.

Sylvia.

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Ever tried going the FOS route to sort out a claim, after months of arguing
with your bank?  Just goes on and on and on.  


Another time when I tried to cancel a transaction because it looked like
Internet fraud, the bank said they could do nothing until the transaction
went trough and I put in a dispute form.  The banks are uninterested in
preventing fraud from happening.  They charge the high interest rate on
CCs to cover the fraud, the consumers pay, not the banks.  As it happened,
the company concerned fixed their order confirmation email that triggered
my contacting the bank, cancelled the order and all ended well.  


Another thing is that Paypal are a financial institution in .au subject to
the FOS, take them to FOS if they make an unfair decision, as long as you
have the documentation to prove your case.  Faster then trying to get them
reopen case closed in the other side's favour.  Paypal were a lot more
responsive to a FOS complaint than my bank is.  My bank will say anything
over the phone to quiet a customer's concerns, but they refuse to put it in
writing.  Too many lies.

Grant.
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Which industry are the involved with and did the verisign show up ?

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Re: The downside to internet shopping

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Or how some people don't check their computers for keylogger software
.....
--
idgat
Compuglobalhypermeganet Inc.

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Maybe they don't but I do.

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**They're EVERYWHERE. I have three credit cards. One is for business use
only. One is for personal purchases and one (with a low limit) is reserved
for internet transactions. Last year, I travelled to Canberra for a few
days. I purchased fuel at a Shell servo somewhere in the city. I pretty much
buy my fuel from only one outlet here in Sydney. I NEVER use that card for
internet transactions. Within a week of my fuel purchase in Canberra, I
received a call from my credit card issuer about an attempted purchase in
The Netherlands. Naturally, it was not me. My card was immediately
cancelled, the overseas transaction reversed and a new card issued. Funnily
enough, I recall overhearing the conversation between the servo attendent
and a young woman at the front of the queue. He was saying how he was
looking forward to his impending holiday and leaving the job he was not
happy with. I put two and two together.

Obviously my card was 'skimmed' at the servo. I now take MUCH greater care
when paying by credit card and I watch the people handling my card.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



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We were on hols in EnZed recently, using an ANZ Travel Card (which are
a good idea btw).  At one POS transaction the card was declined by the
EFTPOS machine.  Puzzled, we later checked it in an ATM and couldn't
even get a balance.  Went into the bank and they couldn't shed any
light, but put us on the phone to ANZ Card Services in Oz.

Turned out we had used our card two nights earlier in a restaurant
which had a flag against it because of a dodgy prior transaction - not
by the restaurant but a card holder - so "the Falcon" had locked OUR
card.  We established that the previous block of transactions on our
card account were genuine and it was unlocked.

Annoying, inconvenient at the time, but I guess I'd rather have the
Falcon trigger-happy than asleep at the wheel.

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