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Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions


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Temperatures are not climate.
Isn't that Hadley mob the ones that claimed were were having HOTTEST
recorded days during this decade?
and even Pilmer is skeptical on mixing buld, sat and ballon recordings.
[Is the book worth the money?]



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Once again, our prime minister Kevin Rudd brings stability to the nation
by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
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Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions



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Oh not that nutcase claim.

Graham


Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions

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It isn't a nutcase claim. Average Temperatures at my location have been
increasing for the last two decades. Why? Because I am located in the
middle of growing suburbia with humoungous amounts of black road surface
that store heat during the day and release it at night.

Not to mention all the trees that had a cooling effect on the
predominantly westerly winds have now been replaced by roads and roofs.






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Once again, our prime minister Kevin Rudd brings stability to the nation
by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
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Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions



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You're living in a 'heat island'.

Graham


Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions


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That is basically what cities/large towns are.


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by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
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Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions

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AFAIUI, without the rebate; No.
With rebate; yes, so long as you are not trapped into keeping it running.
someone has reported trouble with the inverter.
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You need to look up isolation(?) tables for you location. These should
give you a month by month breakdown of the likely average "effective"
hours of sunlight, which will give you your likely average production.

From which, you should be able to calculate how much electricity you will
not be paying for

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Back to the grid depends on what demands you have.
Where does the buy back figure of 44c come from?
do you have that in writing?


Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions

:
:> Hi,
:> Does anyone have any experience on how long it takes to re-coup your
:> money on one of these systems ?
:> The sales pitch looks fabulous but after getting the calculator out it
:> doesn't seem so good.
:> Apart from the philsophical / green reasons for going solar , does the
:> $$$ add up ??
:
:AFAIUI, without the rebate; No.
:With rebate; yes, so long as you are not trapped into keeping it running.
:someone has reported trouble with the inverter.
:>
:> Where I live they are being advertised for ~ $4000 + $440 for a new
:> meter & connection to the Grid ( after the govt $8000 rebates etc ) so
:> about $4400 total installed cost
:>
:> It seems pretty hard to calculate how much I would save per quarter on
:> my bills ,
:
:You need to look up isolation(?) tables for you location. These should
:give you a month by month breakdown of the likely average "effective"
:hours of sunlight, which will give you your likely average production.
:
:From which, you should be able to calculate how much electricity you will
:not be paying for
:
:> With *only* a 1kW system it seems unlikely to be putting anything much
:> back into the grid , even if the power company will pay me 44c for it
:> ????
:
:Back to the grid depends on what demands you have.
:Where does the buy back figure of 44c come from?
:do you have that in writing?


These are the feed-in tariffs being advertised by Enviro-Friendly.
http://www.enviro-friendly.com/feed-in-tariff-pv.shtml

Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions


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Baah, easier said then done. Solar insolation, sun hours, are google
options. Beware of "sunshine hours" aka  BOM

http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/cgi_bin_scripts/sunshine-hrs.cgi

These are not the the effective hours of output for a solar array unless
is it tracked and seasonally angle adjusted. Just the max possible in
such case without effect of dust, clouds, shadow, etc.

Anyway, this will give you the monthly figures.
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/climatology/sunshine_hours /
IDCJCM0013_sunshine-hours.shtml




Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions



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Insolation.
http://www.apricus.com/html/insolation_levels_asiap.htm

Look at the variation ! Adelaide avg 4.74 kW / m2 / day , Jan 7.2 , Jun 2.23

Multiply by 0.15 for the typical efficiency of crystaline panels and multiply
by the m2 of panels to get your daily output, e.g. 700Wh daily average / m2 (
yes, less than one kilowatt hour ).


Graham



Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions

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All the independent data I've seen indicates it's a very marginal investment
at best, taken in hard economic terms, and that assumes no problems of any
sort. The payback times are long enough that the gear has to have a fairly
long trouble free life. Has anyone seen failure stats for solar arrays
mounted on rooftops, also what's involved in a repair - bulk replacement?
When we enquired about a system, noone could, or was prepared, to provide us
with any info on these questions.



Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions
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Another important variable, which is also difficult to predict, is the
interest rate, and, if you don't have a mortgage, your marginal tax rate.

This is because if you didn't buy the solar installation, you could pay
down your mortgage, or if you don't have a mortgage, put the money on
deposit.

In the latter case, the interest will be considered income, and be
taxed, thus making it it less valuable to you than if you could use the
money to pay down your mortgage.

I found this page

http://www.yourhome.gov.au/technical/fs67.html

which would allow an estimate of the actual energy generated.

If you sell your house, I imagine your investment would be lost - I'd be
surprised if the presence of solar panels affected the sale price.

Come to think of it, I imagine that money paid to you by utilities,
under a feed-in tarrif, is also considered to be income, and is taxed at
your marginal rate, reducing the value of those payments.

Sylvia.

Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 23:22:52 +1000, Sylvia Else

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The other unknown is the feed in tariffs are set by Govts and can be
varied on a year by year basis,so you cant guarantee that the payments
for your power will stay constant.
The other unknown is the effect of feed in tariffs on electricity
prices.
If lots of people install solar systems then the costs to the power
company go up as they have to pay all the feed in tariffs.
The power companies are completely within their rights to recover all
the money paid in feed in tariffs by higher power prices, and the
component of the power price they increase is the fixed charge, so
unless you have a totally off grid system with battery backup, in the
long term the whole deal is marginal.


Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions
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Depends on the jurisdiction. In the ACT, the tariff is fixed by the year
you install the equipment. Of course, it won't be adjusted for inflation.

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The latter is less clear cut as an input into the decision. I agree
about the effect on prices, but an individual would have to pay the
increase regardless of whether they have a solar panel. While their own
installation would have some effect on the prices, it would be
miniscule, since the cost it represents to the electricity suppliers
would be spread across all their customers.

Classic "tragedy of the commons" stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

This whole feed-in tariff concept is illconceived. Hopefully,
governments will come to their senses before too much economic damage is
done.

Sylvia.

Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:39:41 +1000, Sylvia Else

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Section 10 of this
 ELECTRICITY FEED-IN (RENEWABLE ENERGY PREMIUM) ACT 2008

allows the Minister to make a determination of what the premium tariff
will be for the following financial year, so they can adjust the
tariff once a year as they think fit.
The premium of 3.88 is only set for the 1st year.
As this Act is supposedly modelled on the German scheme in which the
tariff is progressivley reduced over the lifetime of the scheme Id
expect the same would happen here.


Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions
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Yes, that sets the premium rate for the year, but you then have to look
at the significance of the premium rate.

The immediately following section specifies that:

Section 11 Premium Rate -- 20 years

(1)     The premium rate for the financial year in which a renewable
energy generator is connected to a distributor's network applies, if the
generator remains connected to the network, in relation to electricity
generated by the generator during the 20 years after the date of the
connection.

Sylvia.


Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions



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The whole concept of paying people more for micro-generated electricity than the
utility can generate it for itself is so barking mad it's untrue.

It reminds me of the EU common fishing policy that determines stocks will be
helped
by thowing already dead fish back into the sea if they're the wrong breed for a
boat's fishing allowance. So you can kill them but not use them for food !

Graham



Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions

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Lol, FUD. In that case, you simply invested in an income producing asset,
which can be depreciated (panels, regulator, setup, etc) plus any
expenses such as replacement regulators, repairs, water to wash them
down, etc, etc.

For someone paying highest tax rate, it may still be a nice little money
spinner.

Any remaining  income could also be split between title holders.

Unless of course, you didn't actually own the land/structure it was on
and still had to pay rent to the title holder.

Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions
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Yes. I should have thought of that. But by the same token, you'd have to
be careful to ensure that you aren't obtaining a benefit beyond the
income. I'm not sure how the gross schemes work. On a rational basis,
all the electricity generated is considered to be sold to the utility,
which means none of it is offsetting domestic consumption, which must
then be paid for at the normal rate. But then, there's nothing rational
about the whole idea anyway.

With a net scheme, you'd clearly be receiving a benefit from the system,
in the form of electricity, which the tax man should be wanting his cut
of, probably by only allowing a proportion of the depreciation and
maintenance costs to be deductible.

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I'm sceptical. I suspect that it's a marginal proposition at best, with
considerable risk, not least because I'm sure the button counters in the
Government will be making sure this can't be profitable in the hands of
the users.

Sylvia.

Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions

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If you have an accountant,that is their worry, as some explained when
late for work one day. "I had to pay tax last year because the accountant
didn't do his job, so I was finding a new one"


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The bean counters in the government don't have any say. The ATO does. In
any case, the government, all levels, wants to encourage "private bodies"
to get into power generation because the inevitable electricty shortages
would not be blamed on their failure to build another coal fired power
station.


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Re: Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions
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The ATO don't really have any say. They have to implement the tax law as
it stands. If income and expenditure for solar panels is to be given a
special treatement, that's a decision for government, not the ATO.

I was assuming the bean counters would have input into the level set for
the feed-in tariff so that there's no profit for the users. The trick is
to set a level that makes the punters *think* they're onto a good thing
when in fact they're not. Since so few people have even heard of
discounted cash flow, let alone understand it, this is not a difficult task.

Sylvia.

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