Solar Grid Connect 1kW questions

Have a look at

It's a bit messy but should give you a basic idea.

The system has cost me $2750 + $655 for the new meter. The $8000 rebate and about $560 for RECs have to be added to get the total cost. In WA the cost per kWh will rise in July to 17.7c. Don't know how much I will be able to charge for my feed in after 30.6.09.

Tony

AFAIUI, without the rebate; No. With rebate; yes, so long as you are not trapped into keeping it running. someone has reported trouble with the inverter.

You need to look up isolation(?) tables for you location. These should give you a month by month breakdown of the likely average "effective" hours of sunlight, which will give you your likely average production.

From which, you should be able to calculate how much electricity you will not be paying for

Back to the grid depends on what demands you have. Where does the buy back figure of 44c come from? do you have that in writing?

:On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:38:51 +0930, AB wrote: : :> Hi, :> Does anyone have any experience on how long it takes to re-coup your :> money on one of these systems ? :> The sales pitch looks fabulous but after getting the calculator out it :> doesn't seem so good. :> Apart from the philsophical / green reasons for going solar , does the :> $$$ add up ?? : :AFAIUI, without the rebate; No. :With rebate; yes, so long as you are not trapped into keeping it running. :someone has reported trouble with the inverter. :> :> Where I live they are being advertised for ~ $4000 + $440 for a new :> meter & connection to the Grid ( after the govt $8000 rebates etc ) so :> about $4400 total installed cost :> :> It seems pretty hard to calculate how much I would save per quarter on :> my bills , : :You need to look up isolation(?) tables for you location. These should :give you a month by month breakdown of the likely average "effective" :hours of sunlight, which will give you your likely average production. : :From which, you should be able to calculate how much electricity you will :not be paying for : :> With *only* a 1kW system it seems unlikely to be putting anything much :> back into the grid , even if the power company will pay me 44c for it :> ???? : :Back to the grid depends on what demands you have. :Where does the buy back figure of 44c come from? :do you have that in writing?

These are the feed-in tariffs being advertised by Enviro-Friendly.

All the independent data I've seen indicates it's a very marginal investment at best, taken in hard economic terms, and that assumes no problems of any sort. The payback times are long enough that the gear has to have a fairly long trouble free life. Has anyone seen failure stats for solar arrays mounted on rooftops, also what's involved in a repair - bulk replacement? When we enquired about a system, noone could, or was prepared, to provide us with any info on these questions.

Another important variable, which is also difficult to predict, is the interest rate, and, if you don't have a mortgage, your marginal tax rate.

This is because if you didn't buy the solar installation, you could pay down your mortgage, or if you don't have a mortgage, put the money on deposit.

In the latter case, the interest will be considered income, and be taxed, thus making it it less valuable to you than if you could use the money to pay down your mortgage.

I found this page

which would allow an estimate of the actual energy generated.

If you sell your house, I imagine your investment would be lost - I'd be surprised if the presence of solar panels affected the sale price.

Come to think of it, I imagine that money paid to you by utilities, under a feed-in tarrif, is also considered to be income, and is taxed at your marginal rate, reducing the value of those payments.

Sylvia.

The other unknown is the feed in tariffs are set by Govts and can be varied on a year by year basis,so you cant guarantee that the payments for your power will stay constant. The other unknown is the effect of feed in tariffs on electricity prices. If lots of people install solar systems then the costs to the power company go up as they have to pay all the feed in tariffs. The power companies are completely within their rights to recover all the money paid in feed in tariffs by higher power prices, and the component of the power price they increase is the fixed charge, so unless you have a totally off grid system with battery backup, in the long term the whole deal is marginal.

Depends on the jurisdiction. In the ACT, the tariff is fixed by the year you install the equipment. Of course, it won't be adjusted for inflation.

The latter is less clear cut as an input into the decision. I agree about the effect on prices, but an individual would have to pay the increase regardless of whether they have a solar panel. While their own installation would have some effect on the prices, it would be miniscule, since the cost it represents to the electricity suppliers would be spread across all their customers.

Classic "tragedy of the commons" stuff.

This whole feed-in tariff concept is illconceived. Hopefully, governments will come to their senses before too much economic damage is done.

Sylvia.

That's because it isn't.

Graham

Is money other people have paid in taxes to subsidise a wasteful technology.

Graham

Fact is importing a 2kw system directly bypassing the huge markup doing an own install means much less cost and a viable system with a small wind genny to top off .. Only other thing we did was swap to gas in the kitchen and fill at the local forklift place .

Baah, easier said then done. Solar insolation, sun hours, are google options. Beware of "sunshine hours" aka BOM

These are not the the effective hours of output for a solar array unless is it tracked and seasonally angle adjusted. Just the max possible in such case without effect of dust, clouds, shadow, etc.

Anyway, this will give you the monthly figures.

Lol, FUD. In that case, you simply invested in an income producing asset, which can be depreciated (panels, regulator, setup, etc) plus any expenses such as replacement regulators, repairs, water to wash them down, etc, etc.

For someone paying highest tax rate, it may still be a nice little money spinner.

Any remaining income could also be split between title holders.

Unless of course, you didn't actually own the land/structure it was on and still had to pay rent to the title holder.

Yes. I should have thought of that. But by the same token, you'd have to be careful to ensure that you aren't obtaining a benefit beyond the income. I'm not sure how the gross schemes work. On a rational basis, all the electricity generated is considered to be sold to the utility, which means none of it is offsetting domestic consumption, which must then be paid for at the normal rate. But then, there's nothing rational about the whole idea anyway.

With a net scheme, you'd clearly be receiving a benefit from the system, in the form of electricity, which the tax man should be wanting his cut of, probably by only allowing a proportion of the depreciation and maintenance costs to be deductible.

I'm sceptical. I suspect that it's a marginal proposition at best, with considerable risk, not least because I'm sure the button counters in the Government will be making sure this can't be profitable in the hands of the users.

Sylvia.

Insolation.

Look at the variation ! Adelaide avg 4.74 kW / m2 / day , Jan 7.2 , Jun 2.23

Multiply by 0.15 for the typical efficiency of crystaline panels and multiply by the m2 of panels to get your daily output, e.g. 700Wh daily average / m2 ( yes, less than one kilowatt hour ).

Graham

so, it is $8,000 in my pocket and insignificant compared to the millions given to other wasteful industries.

Url?

Are you licensed to connect to ains or standalone?

That is what we have.

If you have an accountant,that is their worry, as some explained when late for work one day. "I had to pay tax last year because the accountant didn't do his job, so I was finding a new one"

The bean counters in the government don't have any say. The ATO does. In any case, the government, all levels, wants to encourage "private bodies" to get into power generation because the inevitable electricty shortages would not be blamed on their failure to build another coal fired power station.

The ATO don't really have any say. They have to implement the tax law as it stands. If income and expenditure for solar panels is to be given a special treatement, that's a decision for government, not the ATO.

I was assuming the bean counters would have input into the level set for the feed-in tariff so that there's no profit for the users. The trick is to set a level that makes the punters *think* they're onto a good thing when in fact they're not. Since so few people have even heard of discounted cash flow, let alone understand it, this is not a difficult task.

Sylvia.

google any one of dozens of small chinese suppliers we bought through the business from Singapore

I employ people who are , I do little installation these days being forced to be the watcher

get a wind genny , chinese unit at 600>800 watts costs bugger all , you just end up with an odd barrel on the roof.