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Re: selling power to the grid



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I think those two statements are contradictory. My 2c is that until the
world gets another large scale solar panel fabrication plant, then solar
panels are going to stay expensive. Prices jumped a few years back due
to the serious under supply of panels.

Re: selling power to the grid


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Yep, I'd love to put solar cells on my roof and have a grid inverter,
but because I can now simply buy 100% solar or wind power from the
grid (albeit at a 50% increase in price over coal), it's a no-brainer
at present. Things will eventually change though.

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They haven't been able to for many years now.
And they like the keep the prices artificially high as well, but that
will eventually change as well.

Dave.


Re: selling power to the grid


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All we need is for the price of a grid connected solar system to drop
to $8/W and you can install one for free thanks to the government
rebate.
I'm patiently waiting...
In the mean time I'm happy to pay 17c/kWh or so to have it delivered
via the grid.

Dave.


Re: selling power to the grid


On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:23:57 -0700, "David L. Jones"

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The problem with rebates is that generally the price of what is being
rebated goes up to suit the rebate.
You can buy Solar Cells now for $8 a watt, but the typical
installation cost of a 1KW Grid tie system is around $14K or more.
Thats $6K for the installation and the Invertor , doesnt really add
up.
Rebates usually dont work as they drive up the demand for Solar Cells
which is what is keeping the prices high.
It would make more sense for Governments to build their own Solar Cell
plants and make the Solar Cells at cost and then just sell them to the
public.
Much better than just lining the pockets of solar cell manufacturers.


Re: selling power to the grid



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When a government no longer believes in government hospitals, government
schools, government roads, government provided public transport, government
owned  banks or government provision of any essential services in fact, then
government run factories are never going to happen!

They do however like providing tax-payer subsidies to any business that
contributes sufficiently to their election campaign funds. This will
obviously continue for the foresee-able future.

MrT.



Re: selling power to the grid


ok so anybody have any idea on how much would it cost to power a home 24/7
via solar?

i would imagine i would need the usual stuff like 12v lighting, 12v
appliances, inverters for 240 volt.

i am looking at doing a green project as i just got a block of land out at
mudgee and i stuck one of those shed type homes on it.

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Re: selling power to the grid


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**How long is a piece of string? There are too many variables to take
into account.

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**Budget for at least $20k, less the gummint rebate ($8k), if you are
VERY frugal with electricity and you don't use any of the following:

* Electric heating and cooling.
* Electric ovens (microwaves are OK).
* A pool filter.

If you want all that stuff too, then you'd better bump your budget up to
at least $40k. Plus batteries. Add another (say) $5k for them.

Trevor Wilson

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Re: selling power to the grid


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Do you have any idea of your likely consumption?
There can be a 10 to 1 difference in power consumption between homes
depending on a whole host of factors.

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You have to know *exactly* what stuff you need a before you can price
a suitable solar system.

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Do you have access to the grid?
Did you consider any of this before you bought the block of land and
plonked your shed down?
Is it windy out at Mudgee?

Dave.


Re: selling power to the grid


im on the grid, just looking to see if its worth doing.

not using much in the way of electrical appliances, gas stove, hot water and
heating powered by a bank of lpg cylinders.

so mainly lighting , and the usual, tv, computer, probably the highest
draining items would be washing machine and dryer.

pretty much looking at using it as a getaway so power demand would not be
constant.
but if i was to stay there for a week or so i would need a system that i can
draw power off 24/7


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Re: selling power to the grid


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At this point, financially it isn't worth doing.  If there is enough
demand and/or government pressure, better solar panels will certainly
be developed in the future, just like how almost every other item in
the world has been improved and developed over time.



Re: selling power to the grid



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It really depends on what you mean by better Solar Panels.
Better Solar Panels are being made everyday, the efficiency
is now hitting 40% which is a lot better than the 12% we are currently
used to.
If by better Solar panels, you mean cheaper ones, theres not much
evidence that theres going to be much change.
I know of no current technology that will substantially reduce the
price in $ per watt of Solar panels.
Better solar panels yes, cheaper ones , unlikely.
And there is huge demand for cheaper solar panels.
But most manufacturers seem to want to make better ones.

Which is better.
A 12% solar panel that costs $5 a watt or a 40% solar panel
that costs $15 a watt.



Re: selling power to the grid


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In the consumer society it's only dollars per watt that counts. If
you're sending a satellite into orbit then you might want to look at
efficiency. After that you only compare the cost of the setup over a
period of years. At this point solar looses against grid power. Do the
maths.

Dorfus

Re: selling power to the grid


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**OK, so far.

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**A CLOTHES DRYER??!!! Get real. Clothes dryers are the most easily
replacable, almost useless drains on power. Get rid of it. Don't even
think about using one on a Solar power system.

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**Then think VERY CAREFULLY about high drain devices. Clothes dryers,
indeed!

Trevor Wilson

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Re: selling power to the grid


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It's not worth doing at the moment. A lot of hassle, and a lot of
money. But if you have money to burn, by all means...
If you want to be be eco-friendly the easiest thing you can do is
switch to 100% Green power from wind or solar. Origin Energy provide
the best plan for this. Costs you about an extra 6 cents per kWh or
so. Anything cheaper is not true 100% green power from new
infrastructure.
You should do this anyway regardless of if you install a solar system
or not.

Dave.


Re: selling power to the grid


Solar panels $4W in Japan!!

I'm currently visiting Japan, going through all the electronic
hobbyist areas but my focus is on solar panels and inverters.  I am
amazed to find the odd house here and there covered in solar panels.
(They have 15 nuclear reactors around Japan supplying Tokyo
electricity).
I asked a friend to introduce me to someone into solar and gathered
some interesting info.  solar panels are cheap here!!
Cost is about AU$4 Watt retail! That is with no govt rebate or
anything. why are we being ripped off in Australia. The rebate is a
scam.

You can order online here

http://www.solarmake.com /

http://555-801.com/taiyou03m.html

I am looking at what customs will charge me in inport duty if I try to
bring some back with me.
130W panel weighs 17kg.




Re: selling power to the grid



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Rebates are like subsidies.
They usually drive up the local prices by the amount of the subsidy.
Because there are so few PV Manufacturers In Australia, its
essentially a Monopoly Market.
Ive been watching closely the cost of installing grid tie solar
systems since the rebate was increased to $8K, and surprise, surprise
the install costs have magically gone up to match the increase of the
rebate.


Re: selling power to the grid


In reality, you should add up all your costs and find out what your capacity
will be to return power back to the grid. It takes a very large cost in
equipment and up-keep to make a viable power source that can bring any type
of return. You have to also consider the recovery time for your cost.

Most power companies only pay out much less than there selling price when
buying power. They are there to make a profit.

I myself went through the numbers for my area, and found it was not worth
the effort in relation to the return I would end up with. In fact, I would
have the possibility of a loss.

--

JANA
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