selling power to the grid

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Is anybody actually selling power back to the grid? I know there are
green power credit schemes but this appears to only wind back the
meter or give you credit. I am trying to figure out which company
actually gives you hard cash for electricity sold to the grid.  Im
wondering If I can make even a small income from it?


Re: selling power to the grid



"tuppy"
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**  If  YOU can make 240 VAC  electricity, at home,  for under 12 cents per
kWh -  the world wants to hear from YOU.

Seriously -  in some countries, legislation forces energy suppliers to pay
around double the retail cost of AC power to folk who have solar panels
installed and feed back their excess capacity.

Helps with peak demand on hot days I suppose.

Very politically correct move.




......   Phil





Re: selling power to the grid


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I think you would make a lot more by being careful with your usage,
dont leave unused lights on,
use lower wattages if practical, use the line not the clothes dryer
etc

Another problem is that if you sell power, you probably have to pay
tax on that income,
whereas what you use (for domestic purposes) wouldn't be a tax
deduction against it.

How do you plan to generate the electricity ?


Re: selling power to the grid



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Most of the Power Companies in Australia that do give you credit for
buying back your power pay you about 1/2 for it than what they charge
you for it.
In Germany things are a lot better, you get the equiv of 75C per Kwh
for what you sell back.

As for making an income , good luck.



Re: selling power to the grid



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Thank god we don't pay that much for electricity here just yet!

MrT.



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No probs,
you can when we go nuclear with no subsidies!

Greg



Re: selling power to the grid



..
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I'm sure of it, that's why I said "just yet" :-)

MrT.



Re: selling power to the grid


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My enquiries several years back revealed that my supplier would credit
me at about 20% the rate they charged me.

Fairly recent legislation in Victoria requires that power companies
credit you per KW.hr at least what they charge you per KW.hr.

A wise move by Bracksy, which went almost unreported.

Re: selling power to the grid


I am hoping the labor party gets in, then increases the solar rebate
as promised.
then Ill buy 20K worth of panels with inbuilt mini inverters on the
back of them.
ie no batteries at all.  Then get a rebate back of $8- $10k.

So I would be looking at getting back $10-$12K generating as much
power as possible and not actually using it myself.   This
installation would be on my weekender house which is mostly
unoccupied.   Thus I dont want credit, just hard cash to pay off these
panels asap!!    Problem is integral only give you credit (yes at 1/2
rate u buy it)   but better than nothing. Goal is to get these panels
paid off in record time..


Re: selling power to the grid



"tuppy"

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**  Knew you had some crackpot scheme like this in mind.




......    Phil



Re: selling power to the grid



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these

I doubt that even in Victoria they will pay you a higher rate for
power you put into the grid compared to what they charge you for power
you take from the grid. Power utilities (Australian) don't usually
work that way.

I had a look over the Origin Energy website to see if I could find
anything regarding solar energy buy back rates but this information is
not obvious anywhere. In contrast, Synergy in WA, are completely open
about it
http://www.synergyenergy.com.au/Residential_Segment/Green_Energy/Sale_%26_Purchase_Rates.html

Re: selling power to the grid


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If they did we could just sell them back the power we buy from them and make a
nice profit for doing absolutely nothing.

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http://www.synergyenergy.com.au/Residential_Segment/Green_Energy/Sale_%26_Purchase_Rates.html

Re: selling power to the grid



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Almost -
Synergy W.A. will buy your peak electricity for about 3x what you buy it
from
them during off-peak. They have a problem in summer with excessive amounts
of cheap inefficient Chinese made air conditioners drawing more load than
the network can handle.
The peak is during the middle of the day, off-peak is at night.
you must have a "smart meter" installed.
see:
http://www.synergy.wa.gov.au/PDF_Documents/Support_Documents/RENEWABLE_ENERGY_BUYBACK_SCHEME_%28REBS%29_INFORMATION_PACK.pdf

what is the tariff structure in your state?

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http://www.synergyenergy.com.au/Residential_Segment/Green_Energy/Sale_%26_Purchase_Rates.html




Re: selling power to the grid



SNIP
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That sounds like the kind of sales pitch one would expect from a
Synergy employee.

The relationship between what they pay you for power during peak
periods compared to what they sell it for during off-peak periods is
totally irrelevant since they still only pay you 10/11ths of the rate
at which you buy from them irrespective of the period.
http://www.synergyenergy.com.au/Residential_Segment/Green_Energy/Sale_%26_Purchase_Rates.html

Re: selling power to the grid


10/11 is just the same rate as what you pay from them minus the GST.
If that is a big problem, talk to the fed govt, or maybe you can do a deal
if you are registered for GST?
Compare this to what is on offer from other elect supply bodies in Aus.

btw, I don't work for synergy, ross, but I am a customer, just like every
resident in Perth

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http://www.synergyenergy.com.au/Residential_Segment/Green_Energy/Sale_%26_Purchase_Rates.html



Re: selling power to the grid


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I've claims of people with solar installations selling excess power back
into the grid, but this tends to be in articles or promotional material, and
seems more of an implication that it *could* be done rather than actually
happening. I guess the inverter would have to be synchronised to the mains
frequency, but to actually get power to flow into the grid it'd have to
output a voltage marginally higher than the grid voltage?

I also wonder what happens if the power authority needs to isolate a
circuit, or a power line goes down, or there's a blackout? Would the lack of
grid voltage cause the inverter to shut down or would there be voltages in
the grid where linesman wouldn't be expecting to find it?




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It's for real and it's easy, all you need is a "grid inverter", you
can buy them off-the-shelf:
http://www.solarcharge.com.au/products/inverters /
http://www.solarshop.com.au/grid%20connect%20solar%20page.htm

Go to the national Sustainable House Day on Sep 9th and you can see a
whole bunch of open houses with grid connect systems.

Dave.


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Forget it, unless you do it for the love of it. You will never get
your money back, well, not for say 20 years.

Michael mobs does it, I've been to his place and seen his
installation, and he mentioned that he actually got a cash return. No
idea who he is (or was) with though.
http://www.sustainablehouse.com.au /

Plenty of others feed back to the grid as well, but now that you can
simply buy 100% accredited solar or wind power (at a premium), it's
far far cheaper to simply do that than have your own local power
generation system. If you are in a windy rural area then perhaps you
could feed back wind power, the installation costs would be less than
solar, as wind generators are getting cheaper and popular. But forget
trying to make any sort of income from it.

Dave.


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**Well, yes, but you are neglecting several facts and probabilities:

* Solar cells are falling (slowly) in price and increasing (slowly) in
efficiency.
* Electricity is VERY cheap in Australia, by world standards. The price
will go up, as the cost of generating one's own power falls.
* The upcoming carbon trading will push up the cost of coal generated power.

Of course, all these things will reduce the cost of large scale
renewable energy too.

I've done the sums for my place. For around $18k, I can generate around
33% of all my power needs. If I fill the pool in, that balance becomes
around 50%. That, allowing for the $8k grant form the gummint, means a
20 year payback. If electricity was the same price as it is in (say)
California, then payback would be less than 15 years. In Germany,
payback would occur in less than 10 years. In Italy, around 7 years. In
Denmark, around 5 years. The one, certain thing is that electricity
prices will rise in the near future. If Australia is dumb enough to go
the nuclear route, then prices will rise even more dramatically.

If I could expect a 5 year payback, I would jump in right now. And, I
suspect, so would a lot of other people.

Further: A friend's girlfriend works for BP Solar. They can't keep up
with the present demand for cells.

Trevor Wilson

--

Re: selling power to the grid


On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 07:28:01 +1000, Trevor Wilson

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This is a good utility for working out the payback.
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/calculators/PVWATTS /
Use version 1 and use your closest locality.


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