Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area

It is, but only a deranged gas-fired plant manager bids prices below his marginal cost of operation, and only a similarly deranged coal-fired plant manager bids prices above the marginal cost of gas-fired plant when it's unlikely that all the gas-fired capacity will be required anyway.

So the practical outcome is that as demand reduces, generators are taken off-line in reverse order of marginal cost.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else
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Completely irrelevant to the point I made. As I said, buy then the hydro and ICEs can have turbines spinning.

Correct, but you have totally ignored reality that turbines are not rotating unless they are scheduled to be running. Local PV can cover the spin up time.

Also, according to your often repeated mantra, there isn't any capacity for those spinning turbines to supply the extra load.

Reply to
terryc

No, they are contributing to power generation as a time when it is in highest demand. Your point only exist in an extremist attitude.

Reply to
terryc

Why would the hydro and ICE be running when the load is being supported by PV, just against the unknown future moment when the clouds close again?

They're rotating if they've been scheduled to provide frequency support. As I said, they get paid for that. That is, in addition to being paid for the power they actually generate, they get paid for being there to absorb fluctuations in load.

I haven't said that. If you think I did, they you've misconstrued something I said, or are taking it out of context.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

Correction, *any* PV, wind, tidal power etc, can cover the spin up time, (given suitable weather conditions only) and local roof top units are simply the most expensive to install and maintain per kWHr, thus the most uneconomic if it wasn't for stupid government handouts of other taxpayers money.

Just another insane idea brought to you by Howard and Costello.

MrT.

Reply to
Mr.T

Spot on. In fact it's probably 'anti-green' too. PV solar is best suited for for off-grid applications.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Not to mention that any subsidies or 'incentives' put up the tax burden which you also have to pay.

Until PV solar power can pay its way on a level playing field, any use of it ( beyond off-grid applications ) is simply playing politics.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Have you any idea how LITTLE electricity they provide ? Modern diesel and gas turbine generation is very efficient for example in comparison. GE has a gas turbine electric generator that's 60% efficient IIRC.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

You'll need a damn big PV installation to run air conditioning of any amount. Maybe 20 m3

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

In some climates this MAY be true but PV solar is no panacea for all ills. It onlt makes sense in certain situations and always does so at a HIGH cost.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Correct. It's sad that PV solar panel power is so badly misrepresented. It has its place but not as a grid source.

Uhuh.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Power industry isn't doing it because their size in batteries can not be purchased at the local garage.

Okay, taking my fileserver, which requires 96 watts max and my LG995E CRT monitor which requires 72 watts max, that means 168 watts I need out of the battery bank, or 14 amps @ 12Volt.

So, to cover 7am to 10pm, I need to store 15x14 = 210 amp hours. In lead acid, this means 420amps hours.

Practically, that equates to 5x100AmpHr batteriess hour at $200 (old price), or $1,000. 10 year life span means costs 28c per day in depreciation. Loan costs is 6% atm or 20c per day.

Electricity savings are 15(0.1575-0.0554) =$1.53c. Net savings are $1.07c per day. or $3,905.50c over ten years.

Reply to
terryc

You're not thinking very green are you? Any lessened usage of coal power is welcome if you believe in carbon offsets.

Reply to
Lu R

If one has decided that CO2 reduction is necessary, then it make sense to achieve that by the cheapest possible means. Even wind power is cheaper than solar PV, so solar PV just doesn't make the cut.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

And large scale solar arrays are more cost effective than flea size home roof top units in any case. Just another case of government stupidity. However wind, solar, tidal power etc. are complimentary IMO, since one may be usable when the other is not.

MrT.

Reply to
Mr.T

: :If one has decided that CO2 reduction is necessary, then it make sense :to achieve that by the cheapest possible means. Even wind power is :cheaper than solar PV, so solar PV just doesn't make the cut. : :Sylvia.

If you have you ever approached your local council about erecting a tower with minimum height of at least 10M to accommodate even a small wind turbine you will find out they just won't allow these things, no matter how environmentally greenhouse friendly they are. On the other hand they don't object to PV panels on your roof. I also dispute your claim that wind power is cheaper. Assuming that the govt rebate stiill applies, for a given output capacity, I think it would be far cheaper to install PV than wind - assuming your local council will approve the tower construction. The sun generally will shine for more hours than a suitable wind will blow in the suburbs - unless you are high up and on the coastline.

An even simpler way of reducing CO2 from electricity generation would be to legislate that ALL houses must have a solar water heater.

Reply to
Ross Herbert

will

than

Small domestic wind turbines make no sense anyway. If you're going to spend money on a turbine, you want it big, you want it high, and you want it in a place that tends to get a lot of wind.

I recently went through the numbers on a solar water heater when my electric heater was clearly on its last legs. Even with the government rebates, the result was marginal, meaning that the true financial cost was significantly higher than for an purely electric storage heater.

The best that can be said for solar hot water heaters is they're more economic than other forms of solar power (and perhaps than wind power). They *might* be the cheapest way to heat water when all the external costs (CO2, etc) are included, if nuclear power is not acceptable.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

In the same way as small domestic PV panels don't.

MrT.

Reply to
Mr.T

You need to do some serious research into lead acid batteries. The type of application you are looking at needs deep cycle batteries,not car batteries. A 12 V 200AH deep cycle battery will cost you anywhere from $800 to $1000.

Reply to
Mauried

Yep

where are you buying those from? Surely not Battery World? BTw,I probably would not buy ones that big, but 2 x 6V200AmpHr

Reply to
terryc

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