Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area - Page 4

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Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area


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  pot kettle black bitch
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Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area

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I didn't have to offer any more, I was agreeing with Trevor's comprehensive
reply.

Dave.



Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area
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Essentially you're saying that the predictions of falls in prices arises
not from falling costs of production of the dominant existing
technology, but from assumed drops in the production costs of one or
other of a variety of new thin film technologies. Well, it might happen,
but it's far from being a sure thing.

Handing out taxpayer dollars to the manufacturers of existing technology
cells is certainly a waste of money.

Sylvia.

Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area



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**NO. I said nothing of the kind. I said that supply - demand issues will
dictate the pricing. At present, demand outstrips supply. It's basic
economic theory. The "new thin film technologies" have been around for
awhile. They're not 'vapourware'. As supply increases, prices will fall. As
prices fall, demand increases, thus tempering supply and, in turn, prices.
It's all in my old school economics text books.

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**Why? Is it better to continue to hand out taxpayer money to the coal
producers?


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area
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One would expect the supply to ramp up pretty quickly if there was a
significant buck to be made. If that's not happening, it must be because
the price is being dictated by manufacturing cost, not by demand.

Prices drop when supply increases, but supply only increases if it's
financially worthwhile.

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I don't see any proposals to subsidise domestic coal powered generators,
nor to let consumers sell power from their domestic coal powered
generators back to the grid at inflated prices.

Sylvia.

Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area



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**Once again: We're not manufacturing lead/acid batteries. Silicon fab
facilities are VERY expensive to build. A decision to build may result in
the facility being operational several years down the track. Additionally,
since the need to produce cheap PV cells is contingent upon fossil fuel
prices being high, there has been no real necessity to ramp up production
'till recently. Combine that with the stranglehold that BP has held over the
industry for many years and you have a recipe for slow development. BP's
stranglehold is faltering (thanks to Chinese production), so we may see some
big changes soon.

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**Of course. You also need to keep in mind that BP has had defacto control
over the PV cell industry for a long time.

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**Coal producers have, for a very long time, been using the infrastructure
provided to them at taxpayer expense (road, rail, ports system). They have
also been allowed to pollute, unhindered, for a long time. It is only fair
to provide similar incentives to other, less polluting, industries.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area

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No, it is only fair to make them ALL pay the total cost to the country as a
whole, including any effect of mitigating pollution, so the cheapest most
effective solution can win out in the end.
That will NOT be solar panels on house roof tops, but MAY be large solar
panel arrays connected to the grid. (or more likely a combination of *large*
solar, wind, tidal etc. solutions, rather than individual flea size
installations)

The current government rebates simply create a market for far less effective
solutions, which entail far higher installation and maintenance costs per
kWHr.
Once again it is simply Government wasting taxpayers money in an attempt to
APPEAR to be doing something!

MrT.



Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area



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**True.

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**Agreed. It is a really dumb idea, inhereted from the Howard government.
I'm all for solar cells, but they need to be in large arrays.

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**Yep. Rudd is just as guilty as Howard.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area
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Verve Energy in Western Australia is about to be subsidised to the tune
of $700 million. They have been made, by law, to sell their electricity
at below cost. Having run up a huge debt the state government has to
bail them out. You can build your own coal fired generator and sell it
to Western Power for 10/11 of what you would otherwise pay for it. At
quantities above 1 megawatt you can negotiate better rates.

Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area


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When did the price drop occur from the realisation that PV does not need
the same high quality silicon as ICs? Or has no one ever built a factory
to manufacture LowQ silicon for PV?


Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area



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**The silicon required to produce PVs needs to be of very high quality, if
efficiency is to be maintained.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area

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Far different beasts. Car lead acids are not power system lead acids.



Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area

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So the current contract offer from Integral energy  to lock my current
prices for two year is a good bet?

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Basically, they are not falling significantly. PVs require a humoungous
factory and no one has stumped up the money for that set up unless an
existing factory has closed down.


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This little boxen isn't claiming to increase panel output, Just rejig the
wiring to cut out low performing panels (shade?)
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Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area



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**Maybe. I doubt electricity will be falling in price anytime soon.

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**China is. However, most of it's production will be soaked up internally.

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**Yep. There are a couple of system around, but they tend to be variations
on the same theme. Instead of using a handful of large slices, manufacturers
split the panel into dozens (or hundreds) of smaller cells. Thus, if the
panel is partially shaded, it may still deliver it's full Voltage, albeit at
lower current.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area

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I think the "soon" is redundant.

MrT.




Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area

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Indeed its becoming 'not so bad'.
You can get PV installed for about $12,000 per kilowatt. For each kilowatt
you will draw typically about 3200kwhours per year, if they last 20 years
(and there are no maintainance costs for inverters etc) then it would be an
ok investment as long as power was costing at least 12000/(3200*20) = 18.75.
Of course with the $8k rebate and selling excess power to the grid at 44c
per kilowatt it *should* be possible to make money. But tell that to all the
people who are spending $1000 per year replacing inverters etc... I don't
know of anyone who has PV who hasn't had enless inverter troubles. I think
the constant temp cycling while going from 0 load at night to full several
kilowatt load is just to much for them and I haven't seen any that are
reliable enough that the manufacturer will give 5-10 year warranties, which
is what you really want.



Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area

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Thank you for that tip.


Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area

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There are a few niches where it works.
For example a 1kilowatt system can be had fully installed for less than
$4,000 after goverment rebates. With the 25 year warranty it should just
about break even at this point.

Also QLD you can sell back excess power for 44c/kwhour, about 3 times what
it costs to buy, so  you will also save some on your power bill. I was about
to get one installed because it worked out marginally cheaper for me, but
they moved the $8,000 to families that earn under $100k.




Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area
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Well, even there it remains a huge waste of money - just that the money
being wasted is the taxpayer's.

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I can't imagine why QLD power utilities are required to pay so much for
it, other than political stupidity.

Sylvia.

Re: Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area

:>> Yes. Don't do it. It's a huge waste of money.
:>
:> There are a few niches where it works.
:> For example a 1kilowatt system can be had fully installed for less than
:> $4,000 after goverment rebates. With the 25 year warranty it should just
:> about break even at this point.
:
:Well, even there it remains a huge waste of money - just that the money
:being wasted is the taxpayer's.
:
:>
:> Also QLD you can sell back excess power for 44c/kwhour, about 3 times what
:> it costs to buy, so  you will also save some on your power bill. I was about
:> to get one installed because it worked out marginally cheaper for me, but
:> they moved the $8,000 to families that earn under $100k.
:
:I can't imagine why QLD power utilities are required to pay so much for
:it, other than political stupidity.
:
:Sylvia.

It will become Australia wide (not just Qld) after July 09 I am told.

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