Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

And LED replacement lights are really good for reducing energy usage (which means less current draw in wiring, etc.), and there are numerous ways to arrange the light output from an array of LED's to make them give the same or better distribution/spread/whatever compared to using grossly-inefficient filament lamps.

Just be careful using no-name cheapy Asian LED lights unless they're fully-tested first - I've had some do bad things. In one case a 'festoon-style' 9-LED lamp caught fire when the electronics on the tiny PCB in the lamp body overloaded. It was in a number plate light on the back of the car fortunately and I didn't know until the next night when I noticed the light had stopped working. You can see pics of this on my LED lighting project page at:

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But other than that, pretty much all the experiences with LED lighting in my cars has been positive. Modern vehicles are starting to appear more and more with LED lighting as standard so that's a good thing since it helps to offset all the extra electrical load resulting from the additional gadgets and engine control devices.

Craig.

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Saab C900 Viggenist
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I like how you set the relays on the dash for the photos............how many have you lost down those cracks? ;-p

[[I really shouldn't talk!]]

.au

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Reply to
jackbadger56

I found the type of LED's you show on your page for tail lights to be not really adequate. all the LED's are all pointing in the one direction, If the LED's are pointing to the rear then no light is actually hitting the reflectors in the mounting, All you see from the rear of the car is only the direct light from the LED itself. There are other globes now made the have in addition to the normally oriented LED's they have 3 or 4 rows mounted radially, allowing more light to be reflected and spread over the whole assembly.

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Reply to
qmod

They're the ones I use now for tail lights and front corner/indicator lights, for exactly the reason you stated. The early designs didn't have additional boards under the main one with LED's pointing out radially from the sides. There are a bunch of new designs out there now which have all the LEDs in the array set up pointing out radially but I haven't tried any of them out as yet.

Craig.

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Saab C900 Viggenist

Did the replacing of the interior light solve the original problem ??

Can you now leave the door ajar for a week and still start the car ??

I have on a couple of occasions left the door ajar and drained down the main battery, and the immobiliser is set, and it flattens the alarm batteries, and the charger wont bring it back up, and, and..., and..., and there is lots of swearing, and I have only got access to 1 vehicle.

You know why I'm asking :>)

Reply to
Bugalugs

>>David Z wrote: >>> Was behind a Falcon today and noticed the tail-lights had an interesting >>> pattern. Instead of a bulb or bulbs, there were lots and lots of little >>> bright dots arranged in a circular pattern (picture rings around a >>> planet to get an idea). Although the BA/BF "shape" has been around >>> since '02, I've never really noticed it until now. Are these actually >>> LED tail-lights and if so, were they a recent addition or have they >>> always been there? I think it was a base XT model too. > >>All sorts of aftermarket products are available ... > > And LED replacement lights are really good for reducing energy usage > (which > means less current draw in wiring, etc.),
**Not so much. UNLESS you are using the very latest and very expensive LEDs, typical high efficiency white LEDs are approximately as efficient as halogens. The big problem, of course, is operating temperature. LEDs cannot be allowed to exceed 150oC. As a consequence, high power LEDs need big heat sinks. Red LEDs are a different matter. They are, typically, more efficient than regular incandescent and slightly more efficient than halogens (which are rarely used in tail light applications). The reason, of course, is that they only need to produce light at one set of wavelengths, whilst incandescents need to produce light at all visible wavelengths. However, that does not tell the whole story. Unless you are using multiple LEDs, there will be wasted energy in Voltage conversion systems (usually, just resistors) with LEDs. Additionally, unless you are using something like a Luxeom emitter, the radiation pattern of the LEDs will be poor, to average. Typically, less than 30o. Incadescents, of course, radiate a full 360o.

and there are numerous ways to

arrange the light output from an array of LED's to make them give the same > or better distribution/spread/whatever compared to using > grossly-inefficient > filament lamps.
**That would depend on the incandescnt and the LED. Howeer, if you want REAL efficiency, dump LEDs and use decent discharge lamps. Those puppies are seriously efficient.

Trevor Wilson

Reply to
Trevor Wilson

None of these LED assemblies that replace a conventional globe comply with the ADRs, ECE (European) or DOT (USA) regulations. In all cases, the light source is intended to be a filament, the position of which is carefully defined within the globe relative to the mounting base.

The lamp assembly is designed around the defined light source, ie light emanating from a filament within a carefully defined envelope inside the assembly. Fit something other than the correct model of globe and the lamp assembly is assumed to not comply with the relevant regulations unless the modified assembly (ie fitted with LED assembly = modified) is tested to the standard again.

Similarly, placing discharge (HID) bulbs into housings intended for halogen globes will not comply. The light source will not be emanating from the correct position to be correctly focussed by the reflector and lens.

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Athol

**None of which I dispute. What I do dispute is the claim that LEDs are automatically far more efficient than incandescents.

Trevor Wilson

Reply to
Trevor Wilson

True, it's simply a matter more of them are needed than a single filament.

Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and that happens instantly unlike filament.

I played about with LED lamps in standard tail lights, even bent the leds on the plug in PCBs at angles - they don't work, I would not pass them.

HID and LED is all fine - better technology, however lenses and housings, as Athol mentions, have to match.

Gas discharge lamps are prolly the best.

Reply to
the_dawggie

**Not necessarily. A Luxeon emitter or a Cree LED could easily equal a 20 Watt brake lamp. With a suitable reflector and lens, it would be appropriately visible from the sides too. Cheap replacement LED assemblies do not use Luxeons or Cree devices. They use cheap, narrow beam LEDs.
**Yes, no, yes. Their response time is faster. They are not necessarily either on or off.
**You need to look at a Luxeon device. They're available in 120o patterns.
**All quite true.

Trevor Wilson

Reply to
Trevor Wilson

For automotive use, filament type lamps are fine, the time it takes to fully illuminate is f*ck all compared to the reaction times of the fella behind you. I dont think the additional millisecond will make any difference what so ever!

But as far as longevity LEDs are the way to go, should be compulsary for every Taxi on the world.

Reply to
Scotty

A absolutely agree with you. Unless you're able to get the electronics right to power the LEDs without wasting a large amount of electricity in order to get the small amount actually needed for the LEDs, there's going to be little or no gain.

But given that the type of devices being discussed are intended to be replacements for incandescent globes, the only light in a vehicle newer than October 1991 in Australia that can be legally converted is the interior light. :-)

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Athol

**It's actually more like 250 - 500 milliseconds.
**They'll be on all cars real soon.

Trevor Wilson

Reply to
Trevor Wilson

illuminate is f*ck all

additional millisecond

Taxi on the world.

For auto use if set up properly they will be either on or off, which is different than incandescent bulbs which dim with age.

There is a reason LEDs are being increasingly used world wide in traffic lights and motor vehicles. Retofit has to be an entire lighting unit replacement tho

I'd go with HID for headlamps and LED for everything else, although LED has been used for headlamps.

Reply to
the_dawggie

**A couple of years ago, I said that LEDs would never be much use for headlamps (well, not in the next few years anyway). I've been forced to revise that opinion. Things have moved very quickly. Cree now have white LEDs with an output capability of around 100 Lumens/Watt. This is close to HID lamps and LEDs have the potential to be significantly less expensive and more robust. A good Halogen is around 25 - 30 Lumens/Watt, so all the LED guys need to do is increase power levels. This can be done with multi-chip arrays, but heat sinking remains a stumbling block. A 15 Watt LED gets damned hot. You've got a 2 sq mm chip, with 100 sq mm of heat sink! Heat pipes and fans will address some of the issues. Still, if they manage 200 - 300 Lumens/Watt in the next few years, you can kiss halogens goodbye. Especially those horrible (domestic) downlights. In fact, at 300 Lumens/Watt, there's little point in bothering with HID lamps in automotive applications.

Trevor Wilson

Reply to
Trevor Wilson

Yes that's one of the major problems - the current crop of commercially-available high-power LED's (Luxeon, etc.) require special power supplies to drive them (though that isn't really much of a problem), and even though they're extremely efficent, they still produce a fair amount of waste heat that has to be dissipated somewhere.

Then again, if you had to generate the same light output using any type of filament lamp, the waste energy produced due to extremely increased current comsumption compared to LED's would result in a fire very, very quickly!

It would be like trying to use a 500 watt halogen spotlight to get the same light output of a modern 10 watt high-effiency LED. Or somewhere in that order of magnitude.

Craig.

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Saab C900 Viggenist

That's true, but personally, after having tested a few different types, I'm of the view that if chosen correctly, replacement LED lamps do a perfectly fine job of replacing their filament-based cousins.

I don't know how it would be possible to actually test that replacement generic LED lamps currently available to determine their 'compliance' with ADR's unless every make/model of vehicle currently driven in Australia was seperately tested with the most suitable generic LED replacement lamps that can be bought in the general marketplace through Ebay sellers or auto parts retailers.

The makes/models of new cars actually sold with LED lighting tend to have very, very poorly conceived light arrays so it probably hinders people's acceptance of LED replacement lighting solutions. The flood of very poor quality Asian-made product isn't contributing either - took me a while to locate sources of good quality product and in fact most of the original batches of LED lamps I bought came from UltraLED's in the UK, and not from cheap-arse Asian ebay sellers.

Craig.

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Saab C900 Viggenist

: > For automotive use, filament type lamps are fine, the time it takes to : > fully illuminate is f*ck all : > compared to the reaction times of the fella behind you. I dont think the : > additional millisecond : > will make any difference what so ever! : : **It's actually more like 250 - 500 milliseconds.

I was kinda just giving a rough idea Trevor, still, Id say that half a second is a tad much. From the supply time till being bright enough to do its job indandecents okay. Half a second could be adjustment in the brake pedal switch. :o)

Lets hope that all cars get em real soon, Im sick to death of people with non functioning brake lights in Qld. Bring on the yearly roadworthies I say.

: : >

: > But as far as longevity LEDs are the way to go, should be compulsary for : > every Taxi on the world. : : **They'll be on all cars real soon.

Hope so. Esp taxis!

: : Trevor Wilson : :

Reply to
Scotty

In terms of light output against total power consumption, they are streets ahead. LED's have always been very highly efficient light emitters, converting almost all of the electrical energy they consume into photons. Filament lamps, by comparison, are extremely inefficient, with efficiences well under 50 percent and in most cases, it's no better than 20 to 30 percent. That's why filament lamps produce so much heat.

The issue has been creating LED products that can output enough light to match filament lamps, but that's got little to do with the differences in efficiency. It's because LED's are so efficient that creating the technology to make them comparable to filament lamps has actually happened.

Filament lamps have been around for longer than motor vehicles powered by internal combustion engines have existed, but because they are so cheap to make (which belies their inefficiency) they've persisted for almost 100 years as the primary source of auxilliary lighting in motor vehicles.

Craig.

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Saab C900 Viggenist

: >> For automotive use, filament type lamps are fine, the time it takes to : >> fully illuminate is f*ck all compared to the reaction times of the fella : >> behind you. I dont think the additional millisecond will make any : >> difference what so ever! : >>

: >> But as far as longevity LEDs are the way to go, should be compulsary for : >> every Taxi on the world. : >

: > For auto use if set up properly they will be either on or off, : > which is different than incandescent bulbs which dim with age. : >

: > There is a reason LEDs are being increasingly used world wide : > in traffic lights and motor vehicles. Retofit has to be an : > entire lighting unit replacement tho : >

: > I'd go with HID for headlamps and LED for everything else, : > although LED has been used for headlamps. : : **A couple of years ago, I said that LEDs would never be much use for : headlamps (well, not in the next few years anyway). I've been forced to : revise that opinion. Things have moved very quickly. Cree now have white : LEDs with an output capability of around 100 Lumens/Watt. This is close to : HID lamps and LEDs have the potential to be significantly less expensive and : more robust. A good Halogen is around 25 - 30 Lumens/Watt, so all the LED : guys need to do is increase power levels. This can be done with multi-chip : arrays, but heat sinking remains a stumbling block. A 15 Watt LED gets : damned hot. You've got a 2 sq mm chip, with 100 sq mm of heat sink! Heat : pipes and fans will address some of the issues. Still, if they manage 200 - : 300 Lumens/Watt in the next few years, you can kiss halogens goodbye. : Especially those horrible (domestic) downlights. In fact, at 300 : Lumens/Watt, there's little point in bothering with HID lamps in automotive : applications. : : Trevor Wilson :

20 years ago a 12volt halogen downlight (lamp only) was approximately $8.00. I see now that the LED array units are down to $5 already. Now you can buy four times as many for the same price. (You have to take into account that one transformer can now run many LED array lamps). and get a nicer colour output while your at it.

Id imagine that modern cars may get like the old jags (I think that they were Jags) where all output points (interior) were fed via Fibre optic and you only had a single lamp running the lot. How simple would that me now. At the press of a button change all dash colours out of a single LED.

Its getting a lot more efficient to use LED now that the technology has improved thats for sure.

Reply to
Scotty

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