Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

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**Not so much. UNLESS you are using the very latest and very expensive LEDs,
typical high efficiency white LEDs are approximately as efficient as
halogens. The big problem, of course, is operating temperature. LEDs cannot
be allowed to exceed 150oC. As a consequence, high power LEDs need big heat
sinks. Red LEDs are a different matter. They are, typically, more efficient
than regular incandescent and slightly more efficient than halogens (which
are rarely used in tail light applications). The reason, of course, is that
they only need to produce light at one set of wavelengths, whilst
incandescents need to produce light at all visible wavelengths. However,
that does not tell the whole story. Unless you are using multiple LEDs,
there will be wasted energy in Voltage conversion systems (usually, just
resistors) with LEDs. Additionally, unless you are using something like a
Luxeom emitter, the radiation pattern of the LEDs will be poor, to average.
Typically, less than 30o. Incadescents, of course, radiate a full 360o.

 and there are numerous ways to
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**That would depend on the incandescnt and the LED. Howeer, if you want REAL
efficiency, dump LEDs and use decent discharge lamps. Those puppies are
seriously efficient.

Trevor Wilson



Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??
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I like how you set the relays on the dash for the
photos............how many have you lost down those cracks? ;-p

[[I really shouldn't talk!]]

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.auhttp://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 |http://www.classicsaab.netand other URL's
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Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

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And LED replacement lights are really good for reducing energy usage (which
means less current draw in wiring, etc.), and there are numerous ways to
arrange the light output from an array of LED's to make them give the same
or better distribution/spread/whatever compared to using grossly-inefficient
filament lamps.

Just be careful using no-name cheapy Asian LED lights unless they're
fully-tested first - I've had some do bad things. In one case a
'festoon-style' 9-LED lamp caught fire when the electronics on the tiny PCB
in the lamp body overloaded. It was in a number plate light on the back of
the car fortunately and I didn't know until the next night when I noticed
the light had stopped working. You can see pics of this on my LED lighting
project page at:

http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900/relighting.html

But other than that, pretty much all the experiences with LED lighting in my
cars has been positive. Modern vehicles are starting to appear more and more
with LED lighting as standard so that's a good thing since it helps to
offset all the extra electrical load resulting from the additional gadgets
and engine control devices.

Craig.
--
Craig's Saab C900 Page at      | Craig's Classic Saab Workshop - Sydney .au
http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 | http://www.classicsaab.net and other URL's
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Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??
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I found the type of LED's you show on your page for tail lights to be
not really adequate. all the LED's are all pointing in the one
direction, If the LED's are pointing to the rear then no light is
actually hitting the reflectors in the mounting, All you see from the
rear of the car is only the direct light from the LED itself.
There are other globes now made the have in addition to the normally
oriented LED's they have 3 or 4 rows mounted radially, allowing more
light to be reflected and spread over the whole assembly.

--
Laurie.
Registered Linux user # 468070

Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

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They're the ones I use now for tail lights and front corner/indicator
lights, for exactly the reason you stated. The early designs didn't have
additional boards under the main one with LED's pointing out radially from
the sides. There are a bunch of new designs out there now which have all the
LEDs in the array set up pointing out radially but I haven't tried any of
them out as yet.

Craig.
--
Craig's Saab C900 Page at      | Craig's Classic Saab Workshop - Sydney .au
http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 | http://www.classicsaab.net and other URL's
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Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??
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Did the replacing of the interior light solve the original problem ??

Can you now leave the door ajar for a week and still start the car ??

I have on a couple of occasions left the door ajar and drained down the
main battery, and the immobiliser is set, and it flattens the alarm
batteries, and the charger wont bring it back up, and, and..., and...,
and there is lots of swearing, and I have only got access to 1 vehicle.

You know why I'm asking   :>)

Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

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None of these LED assemblies that replace a conventional globe comply with
the ADRs, ECE (European) or DOT (USA) regulations.  In all cases, the light
source is intended to be a filament, the position of which is carefully
defined within the globe relative to the mounting base.

The lamp assembly is designed around the defined light source, ie light
emanating from a filament within a carefully defined envelope inside the
assembly.  Fit something other than the correct model of globe and the lamp
assembly is assumed to not comply with the relevant regulations unless the
modified assembly (ie fitted with LED assembly = modified) is tested to the
standard again.

Similarly, placing discharge (HID) bulbs into housings intended for halogen
globes will not comply.  The light source will not be emanating from the
correct position to be correctly focussed by the reflector and lens.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol Linux Registered User # 254000
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Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

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**None of which I dispute. What I do dispute is the claim that LEDs are
automatically far more efficient than incandescents.

Trevor Wilson



Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??
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True, it's simply a matter more of them are needed than a
single filament.

Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and
that happens instantly unlike filament.

I played about with LED lamps in standard tail lights, even bent
the leds on the plug in PCBs at angles - they don't work, I would
not pass them.

HID and LED is all fine - better technology, however lenses and
housings, as Athol mentions, have to match.

Gas discharge lamps are prolly the best.

Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

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**Not necessarily. A Luxeon emitter or a Cree LED could easily equal a 20
Watt brake lamp. With a suitable reflector and lens, it would be
appropriately visible from the sides too. Cheap replacement LED assemblies
do not use Luxeons or Cree devices. They use cheap, narrow beam LEDs.

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**Yes, no, yes. Their response time is faster. They are not necessarily
either on or off.

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**You need to look at a Luxeon device. They're available in 120o patterns.

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**All quite true.

Trevor Wilson



Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

::
: Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and
: that happens instantly unlike filament.
:
:

For automotive use, filament type lamps are fine, the time it takes to fully
illuminate is fuck all
compared to the reaction times of the fella behind you.  I dont think the
additional millisecond
will make any difference what so ever!

But as far as longevity LEDs are the way to go, should be compulsary for every
Taxi on the world.



Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

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**It's actually more like 250 - 500 milliseconds.

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**They'll be on all cars real soon.

Trevor Wilson



Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

:
: >
: > ::
: > : Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and
: > : that happens instantly unlike filament.
: > :
: > :
: >
: > For automotive use, filament type lamps are fine, the time it takes to
: > fully illuminate is fuck all
: > compared to the reaction times of the fella behind you.  I dont think the
: > additional millisecond
: > will make any difference what so ever!
:
: **It's actually more like 250 - 500 milliseconds.

I was kinda just giving a rough idea Trevor, still, Id say that half a second is
a tad much. From
the supply time till being bright enough to do its job indandecents okay.  Half
a second could be
adjustment in the brake pedal switch. :o)

Lets hope that all cars get em real soon, Im sick to death of people with non
functioning brake
lights in Qld.  Bring on the yearly roadworthies I say.


:
: >
: > But as far as longevity LEDs are the way to go, should be compulsary for
: > every Taxi on the world.
:
: **They'll be on all cars real soon.

 Hope so. Esp taxis!

:
: Trevor Wilson
:
:



Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

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non functioning brake
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Unfortunately it will not solve the bigger problem of non functioning turn
indicators caused by many drivers inability to use the switch.
(or the even worse problem of their inability to use their mirrors, and turn
their heads!)

IME most cars are usually far better than those driving them.

MrT.



Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??
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Some people do manage to drive about without crashing into things,
however have no interest in fixing broken stuff on their vehicle,
so the head spins around in the hope they are getting away with it.

There really is all types of drivers on the roads. I agree inpections
are a good thing even if it means for some drivers stuff is broken
for only 364 days of the year.

Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

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100 milliseconds is more typical.

It doesn't pay to just look at times to full brightness either. If
you want an incandescent to turn on more quickly, you can also do
that; and more cheaply than with an LED array.

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Nope. Too expensive.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ /  ASCII ribbon campaign | Great minds discuss ideas;
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Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??
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illuminate is fuck all
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additional millisecond
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Taxi on the world.

For auto use if set up properly they will be either on or off,
which is different than incandescent bulbs which dim with age.

There is a reason LEDs are being increasingly used world wide
in traffic lights and motor vehicles. Retofit has to be an
entire lighting unit replacement tho

I'd go with HID for headlamps and LED for everything else,
although LED has been used for headlamps.

Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

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**A couple of years ago, I said that LEDs would never be much use for
headlamps (well, not in the next few years anyway). I've been forced to
revise that opinion. Things have moved very quickly. Cree now have white
LEDs with an output capability of around 100 Lumens/Watt. This is close to
HID lamps and LEDs have the potential to be significantly less expensive and
more robust. A good Halogen is around 25 - 30 Lumens/Watt, so all the LED
guys need to do is increase power levels. This can be done with multi-chip
arrays, but heat sinking remains a stumbling block. A 15 Watt LED gets
damned hot. You've got a 2 sq mm chip, with 100 sq mm of heat sink! Heat
pipes and fans will address some of the issues. Still, if they manage 200 -
300 Lumens/Watt in the next few years, you can kiss halogens goodbye.
Especially those horrible (domestic) downlights. In fact, at 300
Lumens/Watt, there's little point in bothering with HID lamps in automotive
applications.

Trevor Wilson



Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

:
: >> ::
: >> : Their response time is superior, they are either on or off and
: >> : that happens instantly unlike filament.
: >> :
: >> :
: >>
: >> For automotive use, filament type lamps are fine, the time it takes to
: >> fully illuminate is fuck all compared to the reaction times of the fella
: >> behind you.  I dont think the additional millisecond will make any
: >> difference what so ever!
: >>
: >> But as far as longevity LEDs are the way to go, should be compulsary for
: >> every Taxi on the world.
: >
: > For auto use if set up properly they will be either on or off,
: > which is different than incandescent bulbs which dim with age.
: >
: > There is a reason LEDs are being increasingly used world wide
: > in traffic lights and motor vehicles. Retofit has to be an
: > entire lighting unit replacement tho
: >
: > I'd go with HID for headlamps and LED for everything else,
: > although LED has been used for headlamps.
:
: **A couple of years ago, I said that LEDs would never be much use for
: headlamps (well, not in the next few years anyway). I've been forced to
: revise that opinion. Things have moved very quickly. Cree now have white
: LEDs with an output capability of around 100 Lumens/Watt. This is close to
: HID lamps and LEDs have the potential to be significantly less expensive and
: more robust. A good Halogen is around 25 - 30 Lumens/Watt, so all the LED
: guys need to do is increase power levels. This can be done with multi-chip
: arrays, but heat sinking remains a stumbling block. A 15 Watt LED gets
: damned hot. You've got a 2 sq mm chip, with 100 sq mm of heat sink! Heat
: pipes and fans will address some of the issues. Still, if they manage 200 -
: 300 Lumens/Watt in the next few years, you can kiss halogens goodbye.
: Especially those horrible (domestic) downlights. In fact, at 300
: Lumens/Watt, there's little point in bothering with HID lamps in automotive
: applications.
:
: Trevor Wilson
:

20 years ago a 12volt halogen downlight (lamp only) was approximately $8.00. I
see now that the LED
array units are down to $5 already. Now you can buy four times as many for the
same price. (You have
to take into account that one transformer can now run many LED array lamps). and
get a nicer colour
output while your at it.

Id imagine that modern cars may get like the old jags (I think that they were
Jags) where all output
points (interior) were fed via Fibre optic and you only had a single lamp
running the lot.  How
simple would that me now. At the press of a button change all dash colours out
of a single LED.

Its getting a lot more efficient to use LED now that the technology has improved
thats for sure.





Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

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**Trouble is, those LED arrays only deliver a fraction of the light
delivered by a halogen. The arrays are approximately similar efficiency to a
halogen, but consume a lot less power. Therefore, they deliver a lot less
light. You need to spend the big Bucks on Crees, Luxeons and others to
really get some decent light output. And they are expensive. Very expensive.
It will not always be so.

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**All my dash lighting is LED. I used Luxeons. Too expensive for the mass
market and I had to alter the dash lighting level control to suit LEDs (it
needs to be a current control, rather than a Voltage control) too. The
payoff for me is that I don't need to worry about replacing lamps anymore.

Trevor Wilson



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