Re: CFL Burns Home Down

** See news story:

> >
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> > This USA home owner did not do anything silly or wrong here. >

Hi Phil, ALL,

Yes we need to be aware about this...

My missus put one in my daughters room (fitted with a dimmer) after the bulb stopped working.. Of course it didnt work so she told me.. I said `You cant plug the CFL bulbs into a socket connected to a dimmer switch'.

As I walked into my daughter's room to replace the CFL there was a very loud exploding noise, which scared the crap out of me, as my wife had left the switch turned on.. a fair thing to do, one assumes its not working why worry..

The CFL did not catch fire or even show signs of damage (strange considering the noise it made when it blew).

Now to me it was well known not to use a CFL in a dimmer socket but I was not prepared for the near catastrophic result of doing so I always thought they just wont work.

So beware...we may have lost a house or worse our daughter because of this simple oversight

Mik

Reply to
Mik DaDik
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** That bang would be an electro or maybe film cap exploding.
** Some do absolutely nothing - which is excellent.

However, others flicker and carry on until you set the dimmer knob for max and then they *seem* OK - but are actually operating in a state of serve component overstress.

See:

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** Once out and away from the pack, it is hard or even impossible to tell if a CFL is rated as being dimmer/triac switch compatible or not.

They ALL should be dimmer *safe* at least, by law !!!

Plus fire and poisonous smoke safe too - by making the base from non-flammable ceramic and having no ventilation holes.

..... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

if the CFL has an LC filter (and lots do) then it wont be damped at all (Fc is usually well below 150kHz so the resonant spike wont show up in conducted (or radiated) emissions testing.

the high dV/dt of a dimmer makes the LC filter overshoot, and the output voltage will head in the general direction of 2xVin. the little electros get pushed hard anyway, and are invariably of dubious quality. mind you even good electros go bad when you apply about 2x Vrated.

Hear Hear.

Cheers Terry

Reply to
Terry Given

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:31:58 +1000, Mik DaDik put finger to keyboard and composed:

My brother installed a CFL in a 3-stage dimmed touch lamp and [fortunately ?] short circuited the triac in the dimmer.

- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

I run a CFL on my X10 switches all the time....the proviso is that I always have at least one standard incandescent bulb in parallel with the CFL. I'm on my second CFL now...I'll see if my date stamp is still visible.

Reply to
Lord Garth

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:54:22 -0500, "Lord Garth" put finger to keyboard and composed:

What happens if the incandescent bulb burns out?

- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

"Franc Zabkar" "Lord Garth"

** It's obvious, the CFLs all catch on fire and burn the house down.

.... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

Point taken Franc but it hasn't burned out in over 7 years so far. The bulb could be replaced with a resistor but the bulb was more easily installed.

Reply to
Lord Garth

That's because it was designed to modern safety standards.

Just how stupid are you ?

It's written on the box if it's suitable for use with dimmers or not. Some are but they cost more.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Did he have truly no idea CFLs aren't (usually) dimmable ?

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Never heard of CE, UL, CUL/CSA, C Tick or CCC ?

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 11:08:18 +1200, Terry Given put finger to keyboard and composed:

This person has reverse engineered a lot of failed CFLs:

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- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 23:35:24 +0100, Eeyore put finger to keyboard and composed:

You can be intelligent *and* ignorant at the same time. A lot of people don't understand the problem. It requires a public education campaign by the same authorities that mandated CFLs, or at least a

*prominent* warning on the box, or on the lamp itself. And even if there was a warning on the box, how many people would expect to have to read instructions on how to use a planet-saving light bulb?

In any case I believe CFLs should be able to tolerate misuse, even if they fail gracefully as a consequence.

A final thought. I wonder how CFLs cope with brown outs? That's something that is out of our control.

- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

** Never heard of CRT monitors or TV sets burning home down ??

Agency approval has no effect on the fire hazard issue.

..... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

"Eeysore"

** Not as stupid as you are - pal.

** Sometimes there is some tiny print saying " not suitable for dimmers" - or sometimes a weird symbol is used.

Mostly there is no advice about timer switches, movement detector switches or the like - which can be just as bad.

However - there never any WARNING of there being a FIRE hazard !!!

Plus, once the CFL lamp is separated from the packaging, most have no usage advice at all.

There is a legal issue here, not simply a technical one.

..... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

In truth I don't really disagree with you.

What you are saying is that nitwits should be able to use them without thinking twice in any fitting. That would be ideal.. It may take a few years more though. In the meantime can't they read the damn instructions ?

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Tell me about it ! ;~)

You mean people don't like reading anything they think they can get away with not reading.

They could. At more expense.

No problem here but then we don't exactly get brown outs often.

I pretty much agreee. But who ever reads the instructions anyway ?

A public awareness campaign is IMHO the only way to deal with this.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Actually I haven't. As in NEVER. But this is the UK ! The home of BS. ( British Standards). And the fused plug !

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

"Eeysore" Phil Allison wrote: >> "Franc Zabkar"

** Then you are an ill informed damn fool.

..... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

Doesn't happen in the UK. Fused plugs and all that stuff must help.

Electrical fires are all but unknown here. By design.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

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