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Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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Is this the same "mate" who can STOP his heart?

Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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**Coward. I note your inability to answer my questions and address my
points. A real man would admit that he was wrong. You have not done so.
You're a typical gutless worm, hiding behind his guns. Be ashamed of
yourself.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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**Just a reminder: It was YOUR claim, not mine. Here is YOUR claim:

"He is ignoring the fact that areas of the US that issue 'Concealed Carry'
permits have the lowest number of gun crimes, and the ones that refuse to
allow you to carry have the highest."

I asked you to prove that claim, by using two examples. _I_ did not make a
claim, you did. Thus far you have fulfilled my expectations of you. Which is
to say: Very, very low expectations. You refuse to discuss anything that
shatters your tiny world view. You refuse to validate your claim. All you
can manage is hollow rhetoric.

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**Of course not. Nonetheless, my mate who live in Cal has attended such
shows. He confirmed what actually occurs. Unregulated sales of firearms are
very common. It is well known that second hand guns are sold at gun shows
and no background checks are performed in many cases.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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My reality 2c is that the main reason they do not get prosecuted is tha
it is their mates who would have to perform such a duty.


Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)
Previous version cancelled, and reposted with correct addition of
aus.legal. Apologies to Trevor who had already replied to the previous
version.

Added aus.legal

Trevor Wilson wrote:
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No, killing in self defence is a complete defence to a charge of murder
or manslaughter, provided the killing was a reasonable response to the
situation as perceived by the crim's intended victim.

If someone pulls a knife or gun on you (and, in the former case, is
close enough to be an imminent threat), then there is no problem with
killing them. That is why the police don't get prosecuted in such
situations. They don't have any special power to kill people.

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You're confusing two situations. If someone has my wallet and is running
away with it, then I cannot lawfully kill them to retrieve my property.

But if someone is threatening to kill me unless I hand over my wallet,
then, since I am under no lawful compulsion to accede to their request,
they're actually making a direct and credible threat to kill me. I can
respond to that threat with lethal force. I don't have to meekly hand
over my property.

Of course, in places like Texas, it is
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That doesn't address the issue of causality.

Sylvia.


Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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http://www.smh.com.au/national/killer-claims-the-last-of-the-morans-20090615-casv.html
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I heard you have some electrostatic speakers hooked up to those home made ME
amps, and everytime a stranger comes near your place, you turn it up to 9
and play some
dame kiri te kanawa and they run away, shrieking in pain.
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Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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http://www.smh.com.au/national/killer-claims-the-last-of-the-morans-20090615-casv.html
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**I found these photos of you, Gordo:

http://www.smh.com.au/ftimages/2009/04/21/1240079645262.html

It would seem that you've already visited Jaycar and picked up enough
goodies for your own stun-gun.

Kudos. The 'Thinker' was a nice touch.



--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%
3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D3D%3D
Hi everyone,

Please excuse the inane rantings of my dear friend Trevor Tosspot,
Trevor often gets spanked badly for telling porkies on gun related
groups, and then runs off to other groups to spread his venom and bile
concerning guns, gun owners and Americans. He figures no-one here will
challenge him and he can diseminate his lies and bullshit. He's told
some real clangers over the years, just visit aus.politics.guns and do
a search for "Trevor Tosspot's Porky List".

Last time it was to rec.audio.opinion and aus. hi-fi.

Here's an example of the sort of "sane" gun laws that dear Trevor
supports

---------------------------------------------
Firearms legal loophole helps Victorian criminals
May 05, 2009 12:00am
ANGLE grinders and a legal loophole are helping violent criminals
beat
Victoria's most serious firearms charge.

A court ruling from two years ago is enabling them to stave off
charges of being a prohibited person in possession of an unregistered
firearm.

In the 2007 case, a court ruled a man charged with that offence be
cleared because the weapon's identifying numbers had been removed.

He was able to successfully argue it could not be established the
Glock semi-automatic pistol at the centre of the case was
unregistered. The charge carries a maximum sentence of 15 years.

It is designed to deter people on the prohibited list from carrying
firearms.

The Herald Sun believes other successful defences against the charge
using the same argument have been mounted since the 2007 decision.

Prosecution of a violent Melbourne criminal on the charge was
withdrawn this year because the gun could not be identified.

A spokesman for Police Minister Bob Cameron said the Government was
talking to Victoria Police.

----------------------------------------------------

Hey Trevor, tell us again about your friend who can STOP his heart?

Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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power
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Doesn't matter anyway. As they stand, the Tesla coils would qualify as
"defence or anti-personnel device". They still wouldn't even if they had
a built in power supply.

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I have mixed feelings about guns.

But one isn't even allowed to carry capsicum spray.

Sylvia.

Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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**Nor should one. By disallowing the carry of capsicum spray, police can
arrest and charge criminals for carrying capsicum spray. Just a reminder:
Capsicum spray works just as well as a defensive weapon, as it does for
attack. It can be used to disable a victim, so a criminal can pretty much do
whatever she wants to her victim.

Disallowing the carry of *any* weapon makes the job of police much easier.
ANYONE carrying an offensive weapon (like capsicum spray) makes that person
a criminal. Nice and easy. Lock 'em up. Unless, of course, you'd prefer to
live in a state of paranoia, like most Americans do.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)
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The problem is that a criminal who wants to use capsicum spray
offensively need only carry it when intending to commit an offence.
Given that we do not have routine and frequent searches, such a criminal
is not likely to get caught.

On the other hand, someone wishing to use the spray defensively has to
carry it pretty much all the time. Such a person has a much higher
chance of getting caught.

So the law has little deterrent value for criminals, but is a
significant deterrent to law abiding citizens. It seems likely that the
prohibition that's supposed to make society safer really has the
opposite effect.

Sylvia.

Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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**Nor is the alleged 'innocent' person carrying the stuff. That means the
truly paranoid can carry capsicum spray and probably not get caught. Of
course, it is unlikely to be much use either (see previous reference to
element of surprise). The nice thing about making it illegal, of course, is
that ANYONE carrying the stuff is a criminal. Makes it nice and easy for
LEOs.

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**Really? How many times have you been searched whilst out and about? I've
lived in Sydney for 55 years and have never been searched. I suspect that my
experience mirrors the cast majority of residents living in the most
dangerous and deadly city in the nation.

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**Not so. By making it a criminal offence to carry capsicum spray, we can be
assured that if a criminal is caught with the stuff, they will be removed
from the streets. We can all support that. Same deal with guns. Carrying a
gun, whilst committing a crime, means that the police can lay extra charges.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)
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You can't have it both ways. If a person is so unlikely to get caught
even when carrying it regularly, then the law is pretty much useless
anyway, and might as well be repealed.

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The implication is that the criminal has been caught other than because
they're carrying the spray. In that case, rather than make possession
itself unlawful, it would be better to make it an element of aggravation
for whatever offence the criminal was commiting, or had commited, when
found with the spray. That way people wanting to use it defensively
could do so, and criminals would still have to be concerned about being
caught with it.

Sylvia.


Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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**I never said I wanted it both ways. I stated that personal carry of
capsicum spray is a bad idea for a bunch of reasons:

1) It is essentially useless against a surprise attack (which is most of
them).
2) It can be used as an offensive weapon.
3) By making it illegal, there are more options for the police when they do
catch offenders.
4) It may cause an escalation of violence.
5) It may give the user a false sense of security.
6) Using your rather banal logic, we could make the carry of bio-weapons
legal, because they are difficult to detect.

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**Now you're suddenly making one law for some and another law for others.
That is repugnant. In our society, it simply does not work that way. One law
for all (theoretically).


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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CITE?
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CITE? when where and how?
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Unless it of course involves an illegal semi-automatic pistol, in the
hands of a violent ofender, but with the serial number ground off?
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How? please explain?
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Prove it?
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That's your strawman, you burn it.

Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)


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CITE?

**The killing of Des Moran and all the other Moran family member who have
been murdered.

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CITE? when where and how?

**Spra it into the eyes of the intended victim.

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Unless it of course involves an illegal semi-automatic pistol, in the
hands of a violent ofender, but with the serial number ground off?

**I don't answer idiotic rhetorical questions. This will be the last time I
explain this to you, THIS MONTH. Ask a 9 year old to explain it to you.

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How? please explain?

**Capsicum spray at 2 Metres.

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Prove it?

**What do you understand by the word "may"? Get a 9 year old to explain it
to you.

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That's your strawman, you burn it.

Leave the adults alone. Go and play with your moronic mates. Maybe you'd
rather torture an inmate? Have you have your blood lead levels checked
recently? What was the figure? Either you are a complete and utter moron, or
you may be suffereing the effects of lead poisoning, which is not uncommon
amongst regular shooters. Which is it?  A re you a moron, or are you
suffering heavy metal poisoning?


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)
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So you're claiming these people were in possession of capsicum spray
at the time of their murders?
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And you've claimed how many times you "only deal in facts"? Conjecture
isn't acceptable, when, where and how has capsicum spray been used as
an offensive weapon in Australia?
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But you support these laws, therefore the question is neither idiotic
or rhetorical, it's simpley "too hard" for you to answer.
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See my comments above re. conjecture, you only deal in facts,
remember?
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Alright , explain how carriage of capsicum spray would give someone a
false sense of security?
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Do you refer to the "moronic mates" who hand you a spanking everytime
you're caught telling porkies? Your qualifications to ask questions
about my medical history is exactly what? Are you claiming to be a
doctor now?

Tell us again about your friend who can STOP his heart?


Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)
Hey Trev, give us a kiss

____________________________________
Trevor Tosspot's Porky List

*I have a friend who can STOP his heart

*Their is ample evidence to support the fact that possession of an
inanimate object is capable of altering a cognitive persons intent

*The FBI-UCR for the years 1976-86 are available on the FBI web-site

*My local library has Lott's work in the fiction section

*20% of Australian homes possess firearms

*I only deal in facts

*The firearms related murder rate in the US is 10,000,000 PA.

*gun licences back in the 1920s led to a drop in the murder rate,

*How the British 1903 Pistol Act was enacted and enforced in
Australia prior to Federation.

*How an audit of Government owned arms at Sydney Cove in 1796 was a
gun control law
----------------------------------------------------------------------------





Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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  Too bad the only ones who are voluntarily handing over their firearms are
the law abiding citizens.

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  They're not paranoid.  Everyone *IS* out to get them. :-)
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org

Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

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**An oft-cited and simplistic view. The facts are more prosaic:

1) The vast majority of all firearms are sold from the factory legally.
2) The problem of proliferation of firearms amongst criminals occurs due to
secondary sales and haphazard laws in certain places (notably, the USA).
3) Thanks to Australian mandatory storage laws, the number of guns stolen
from legal owners is falling each year. In the US, where it is legal to keep
a loaded handgun in the (unlocked) desk drawer, stolen guns are a major
problem. As are secondary gun sales (many from so-called 'gun shows'). Many
of these secondary gun sales, cause an influx of guns into Australia (and
other places).
4) Illegal secondary gun sales (ie: Legal gun owner selling a gun to a known
criminal) is virtually non-existent in Australia, thanks to our sane, strong
gun control laws.
5) As criminals are caught (and many are caught), their guns are
confiscated. Thus, if proper controls were instituted in places like the US,
fewer illegal guns would end up in the hands of Australian criminals.
Eventually, almost no criminal would have access to guns.


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**Both, inside the country and outside. Americans are a very paranoid and
frightened bunch. Sylvia would be right at home.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



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