Re: A Quesion for Sylvia Else (stun guns)

**I never said I wanted it both ways. I stated that personal carry of capsicum spray is a bad idea for a bunch of reasons: 1) It is essentially useless against a surprise attack (which is most of them). 2) It can be used as an offensive weapon. 3) By making it illegal, there are more options for the police when they do catch offenders. 4) It may cause an escalation of violence. 5) It may give the user a false sense of security. 6) Using your rather banal logic, we could make the carry of bio-weapons legal, because they are difficult to detect.

**Now you're suddenly making one law for some and another law for others. That is repugnant. In our society, it simply does not work that way. One law for all (theoretically).

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Hi everyone,

Please excuse the inane rantings of my dear friend Trevor Tosspot, Trevor often gets spanked badly for telling porkies on gun related groups, and then runs off to other groups to spread his venom and bile concerning guns, gun owners and Americans. He figures no-one here will challenge him and he can diseminate his lies and bullshit. He's told some real clangers over the years, just visit aus.politics.guns and do a search for "Trevor Tosspot's Porky List".

Last time it was to rec.audio.opinion and aus. hi-fi.

Here's an example of the sort of "sane" gun laws that dear Trevor supports

--------------------------------------------- Firearms legal loophole helps Victorian criminals May 05, 2009 12:00am ANGLE grinders and a legal loophole are helping violent criminals beat Victoria's most serious firearms charge.

A court ruling from two years ago is enabling them to stave off charges of being a prohibited person in possession of an unregistered firearm.

In the 2007 case, a court ruled a man charged with that offence be cleared because the weapon's identifying numbers had been removed.

He was able to successfully argue it could not be established the Glock semi-automatic pistol at the centre of the case was unregistered. The charge carries a maximum sentence of 15 years.

It is designed to deter people on the prohibited list from carrying firearms.

The Herald Sun believes other successful defences against the charge using the same argument have been mounted since the 2007 decision.

Prosecution of a violent Melbourne criminal on the charge was withdrawn this year because the gun could not be identified.

A spokesman for Police Minister Bob Cameron said the Government was talking to Victoria Police.

----------------------------------------------------

Hey Trevor, tell us again about your friend who can STOP his heart?

Have you ever been zapped by a Tesla coil? There's a burning sensation at the contact point, but no electrocution feeling at all. The frequency is too high to cause any muscular response.

CITE?

CITE? when where and how?

do

Unless it of course involves an illegal semi-automatic pistol, in the hands of a violent ofender, but with the serial number ground off?

How? please explain?

Prove it?

That's your strawman, you burn it.

**An oft-cited and simplistic view. The facts are more prosaic: 1) The vast majority of all firearms are sold from the factory legally. 2) The problem of proliferation of firearms amongst criminals occurs due to secondary sales and haphazard laws in certain places (notably, the USA). 3) Thanks to Australian mandatory storage laws, the number of guns stolen from legal owners is falling each year. In the US, where it is legal to keep a loaded handgun in the (unlocked) desk drawer, stolen guns are a major problem. As are secondary gun sales (many from so-called 'gun shows'). Many of these secondary gun sales, cause an influx of guns into Australia (and other places). 4) Illegal secondary gun sales (ie: Legal gun owner selling a gun to a known criminal) is virtually non-existent in Australia, thanks to our sane, strong gun control laws. 5) As criminals are caught (and many are caught), their guns are confiscated. Thus, if proper controls were instituted in places like the US, fewer illegal guns would end up in the hands of Australian criminals. Eventually, almost no criminal would have access to guns. **Both, inside the country and outside. Americans are a very paranoid and frightened bunch. Sylvia would be right at home.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

**I found these photos of you, Gordo:

It would seem that you've already visited Jaycar and picked up enough goodies for your own stun-gun.

Kudos. The 'Thinker' was a nice touch.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

**Skin effect (literally). In large systems, however, there is a lot of energy available. Sufficient to cause burns.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Given that some attempted or successful thefts also cause life long injury to some people, I think it is fair.

CITE?

**The killing of Des Moran and all the other Moran family member who have been murdered.

CITE? when where and how?

**Spra it into the eyes of the intended victim.

Unless it of course involves an illegal semi-automatic pistol, in the hands of a violent ofender, but with the serial number ground off?

**I don't answer idiotic rhetorical questions. This will be the last time I explain this to you, THIS MONTH. Ask a 9 year old to explain it to you.

How? please explain?

**Capsicum spray at 2 Metres.

Prove it?

**What do you understand by the word "may"? Get a 9 year old to explain it to you.

That's your strawman, you burn it.

Leave the adults alone. Go and play with your moronic mates. Maybe you'd rather torture an inmate? Have you have your blood lead levels checked recently? What was the figure? Either you are a complete and utter moron, or you may be suffereing the effects of lead poisoning, which is not uncommon amongst regular shooters. Which is it? A re you a moron, or are you suffering heavy metal poisoning?

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

My reality 2c is that the main reason they do not get prosecuted is tha it is their mates who would have to perform such a duty.

snipped-for-privacy@d25g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

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So you're claiming these people were in possession of capsicum spray at the time of their murders?

And you've claimed how many times you "only deal in facts"? Conjecture isn't acceptable, when, where and how has capsicum spray been used as an offensive weapon in Australia?

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But you support these laws, therefore the question is neither idiotic or rhetorical, it's simpley "too hard" for you to answer.

See my comments above re. conjecture, you only deal in facts, remember?

t

Alright , explain how carriage of capsicum spray would give someone a false sense of security?

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Do you refer to the "moronic mates" who hand you a spanking everytime you're caught telling porkies? Your qualifications to ask questions about my medical history is exactly what? Are you claiming to be a doctor now?

Tell us again about your friend who can STOP his heart?

Hey Trev, give us a kiss

____________________________________ Trevor Tosspot's Porky List

*I have a friend who can STOP his heart

*Their is ample evidence to support the fact that possession of an inanimate object is capable of altering a cognitive persons intent

*The FBI-UCR for the years 1976-86 are available on the FBI web-site

*My local library has Lott's work in the fiction section

*20% of Australian homes possess firearms

*I only deal in facts

*The firearms related murder rate in the US is 10,000,000 PA.

*gun licences back in the 1920s led to a drop in the murder rate,

*How the British 1903 Pistol Act was enacted and enforced in Australia prior to Federation.

*How an audit of Government owned arms at Sydney Cove in 1796 was a gun control law

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

irrelevant

incorrect in many respects and certainly not germane

yes and

In the US, where it is legal to keep

another unsubstantiated lie

liar it's in fact in spite of

and most are not you goose

their guns are

a tiny percentage and easily replaced

Thus, if proper controls were instituted in places like the US, another lie , most states have excellent laws a few do not and that is changing however the us does have no bearing at all on us .

if that were true you would be a much smarter person , it's not and you're not .

cite and url thanks , most yanks are ok folks Americans are a very paranoid and

if you continue to lie in this manner you will be struck deaf and unable to speak as well as dumb Sylvia would be right at home. wrong again

I worked on a unit that was designed for the dental market. Operates at

1Mhz or so, had a square pad you get the patient to sit or lie down on. The probe on the other end does the work.

Didn't appear to have HUGE amounts of juice by gauging on the size of the transformer (~30mm bobbin), but did quite well.

Designed to congeal blood or seal wounds/cuts/etc. Wasn't about to test the thing on myself, but used a sausage instead. Filled the kitchen with a burnt smell, can only imagine how it would smell in a dental surgery...

--
Linux Registered User # 302622

Both police and civilians get subject to a rigorous and penetrating investigative process. But in the absence of wrongdoing, that's as far as it goes.

I wouldn't kill someone just because they demanded my wallet. But if they make a credible threat to kill me or inflict serious bodily injury, then I would act to obviate the threat (assuming I were able), even if that involved killing them. And I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Criminals are profit-oriented. They want to make a profit,

I don't think that's true. The police know that where self defence is raised, the prosecution has to negate it beyond reasonable doubt. In situations where it's credible that the deceased threatened the accused with death or serious bodily harm (for example, with a gun or knife), and in the absence of contradictory evidence, no prosecution is likely.

The cases that go to court are those that lie in the murky area of excessive self defence (for example, killing an assailant who didn't represent a serious threat).

Why? It seems entirely plausible that people carry guns in the USA because it's a violent society, not the other way around.

Sylvia.

g and

s.

So, according to Trevor, civilians that have undergone such training, are fine carrying deadly weapons as they go about their daily business?

Trevor, you really are a sad pathetic soul, and rather confused.

I have undergone such training, therefore, according to Trevor Tosspot, it should be fine for me to carry a dealy weapon as I go about my daily business. However the same Trevor Tosspot has previously asserted that I am a nut-job who should not be permitted any access to firearms whatsoever?

Go figure.

For the record, I have no desire to carry a weapon. I'm a licenced collector and recreational shooter, but feel if there is no reason to have a gun, there's no excuse for having a gun(meaning actuall in possession). I do not believe that crime in the society I live and in the social circles I inhabit has reached the stage where the average person needs to carry a defensive weapon, therefore I have no desire to carry one.

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Really, wow?

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So, according to Trevor, civilians that have undergone such training, are fine carrying deadly weapons as they go about their daily business?

**Read what I wrote. If you have trouble understanding my words, get someone to explain it to you.

Trevor, you really are a sad pathetic soul, and rather confused.

**Clearly, you are the confused one. Get a 9 year old to explain what I wrote to you.

I have undergone such training, therefore, according to Trevor Tosspot, it should be fine for me to carry a dealy weapon as I go about my daily business. However the same Trevor Tosspot has previously asserted that I am a nut-job who should not be permitted any access to firearms whatsoever?

**You ARE a nut job. Nut jobs should not have any access to firearms. Ever. That is just good public policy. Unless you feel that it makes sense for nut jobs to have access to firearms, of course.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Unless there is some evidence that the society in the USA is more inherently violent than other countries, it's not entirely plausible.

It is more likely that, because people can carry guns, more people will be shot than if people did not carry guns. That would include the police, of course.

Hmmm.