Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London - Page 10

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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This is nonresponsive.  The point is that Linux runs with many interfaces
other than KDE and Gnome.  So while those two specific programs may look
sort of Windowsy (or sort of Macish, or whatever else you want to compare
them to), that doesn't mean that Linux does.

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You sure do like to accuse people of lying without ruling out the possibility
that they are, say, mistaken, or simply disagree with you about matters of
opinion, and use the all-caps word FACT for something that's pretty much an
opinion.

You haven't even offered a meaningful claim here, because you haven't really
defined what you mean as "bits of the Win UI".  You mean, say, rectangular
screen areas with defined borders?  Hardly specific to Windows.

If you want to advance a claim, define some terms.  Start by describing what
you think makes something "bits of the Win UI" rather than "user interface
elements which are substantially identical across every major UI ever seen".

Certainly, I've seen a few skins to give X window decorations that look a
bit like various versions of Windows, as well as skins to make X look like
Mac OS 7, Mac OS 9, OS X, NextStep, BeOS, and AmigaDOS.  I am not sure that
any of this meaningfully qualifies as "bits of the <foo> UI", because none
of them really behave all that much like the systems they look like.

-s
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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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Wrong.


The real point is that so much of the Win UI has ended up in *nix GUIs.

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They aint programs, they are GUIs.

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They look a hell of a lot more like Win than anything else.

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Never said it did.

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I only say they are lying when they are. I dont say
that when we just disagree about matters of opinion.

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That particular point is NOT an opinion, its a fact.

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How odd that you havent defined a damned thing yourself.

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Nope.


Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

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How odd that you havent defined a damned thing yourself.

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Go and fuck yourself. You are welcome to do things any way you like. Me too.

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They aint decorations. And you havent defined decorations anyway.

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They aint just skins.

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UI",

Your problem.

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like.

Thats just plain wrong with the UI.



Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
(Rod Speed) writes:

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Show us the source code.

Oh wait, you argued the opposite over MS-DOS's CP/M heritage...

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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Never said a word about the code, what ended up in the *nix GUIs was the UI look
and feel, stupid.

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Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying.



Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 06:22:29 +1100

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    Both run on various BSDs, Solaris and Mac OS X to my certain
knowledge and should be able to run on just about anything with X11 support.

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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All *nix. More mindless hair splitting.



Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
Hi Rod,


    Rod> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote
    >>> Andreas Eder wrote

    >>>>> How odd that Linux has used so much of the UI seen with Win.

    >>>> Well, not Linux, but maybe Gnome or KDE.

    >>> Mindless hair splitting. Neither runs on anything else.

    >> Both run on various BSDs, Solaris and Mac OS X to my certain knowledge

    Rod> All *nix. More mindless hair splitting.

What about QNX? Definitely not a *nix!

'Andreas
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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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More mindless hair splitting.

I dont bother to write everything so no one can split hairs, makes it too
unreadable.



Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
(Andreas Eder) writes:

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Maybe not, but it would qualify as *n*x.

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 08:57:12 +1100, "Rod Speed"

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Yes but they'd had 20 years! Prior to that, there was a lot less.

And it's not "a lie". If it is indeed wrong, it's "a mistake", or "an
error". Or in fact "an opinion".
Switch your brain over from pejorative mode.

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Trumpet Winsock wasn't much of a challenge to use, but it was still
the days when you had to know what you were doing. Back on good ol'
3.1, where one program going wrong totalled the system. Anyway there's
more to networking than it's user interface. In fact they're
completely separate.

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Windows networking evolved from people using Novell under DOS, and
Windows 3.1 would use those same DOS calls. It evolved from there, but
isn't particularly revolutionary. And if Novell still existed, they
might well have done it better.

Anyway now the entire Internet and most internal networks use IP
anyway. Finally, something wins because it's better. That, and the
idea of mass-to-mass communication turned out more popular than The
Microsoft Network, their version of Compuserve just as Compuserve was
breathing it's last.

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Apart from renaming "Bookmarks", oh, and bastardising HTML (admittedly
started by Netscape for similar reasons), what?


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That's because they want to attract new users, who can move over much
easily if things work the way they're used to. Not necessarily the
best way, and that itself's another plague, locking people into
specific UI mindsets. Until recently it had a very different
interface, evolved directly from Xerox.

Linux is still a bit too complicated. Not as much as the nightmare of
Slackware years gone by, where I was expected to work out the timing
in milliseconds of my monitor's electron gun, then edit it into a text
file, just to get a frigging picture. Which I never got to work.

The Linux problem is it's written by people who use it, and obviously
being the system programmers, know every inch of  it. They need to get
a bunch of newbies and old ladies in to user-test it, then take some
notes. Obviously this doesn't fit in well with their model of not
being a corporate behemoth.

I once read that computers crash less the longer you've used them.
Basically software is "training" it's users to subconsciously avoid
the things that make it go wrong, in the case of more adept users,
they barely notice they're doing it. Simpler users keep a notepad.

I think this is related to Linux's main problem. They speak the lingo
too fluently, confusing it with English for normal people.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"hey let's educate the brutes, we know we are superior to them anyway,
just through genetics, we are gentically superior to the working
class. They are a shaved monkey. If we educate them, they will be able
to read instructions, turn up on time and man the conveyor belts,
sorted."     #    

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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Oh, Rod, Rod, Rod, how did someone as dumb as you ever get onto the Internet? I
thought most anencephalics died at birth.

Windows *still* hasn't caught up with Xerox. Clearinghouse had capabilities
that AD still doesn't. The Windows UI is full of logical inconsistencies (*)
that would have had you thrown off the roof at PARC.

(* Why is an LPD printer treated as a local printer?)

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Wrong. Previously done by Xerox with XFS. And I imagine there are earlier
examples than that.

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London

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<reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs>

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And Xerox has been so stunningly successful with the
PC that we all swoon at the mear mention of its name.

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And Xerox has been so stunningly successful with the
PC that we all swoon at the mear mention of its name.

<reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs>



Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
[...]
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and HP.


  Nope, remote file access was done well before PCs - hence
Novell/Netware - even existed. (BTW, upper-casing Network File Systems
and spelling it that exact way, is a bad idea, because it implies
*Sun*'s NFS crap.)

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s/monopolization/extortion/

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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Well, the topic was Apple I, which implies consumer=grade systems.

Burroughs (PPoE) had the capability to share files between
multiple systems (a al NFS/AppleTalk/NetWare) in the 1960's
with up to 8 hosts accessing a single spindle using FPM (file
protect memory) and later SSP (Shared Systems Processor)
for block-level lockout.

scott

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London

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Nope, that bit wasnt.

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Networking doesnt, particularly between separate machines.

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Irrelevant to whether Win networking was anything
like what Novell did, particularly for stupid users.



Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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Burroughs had a lot of great stuff earlier than most.  5500 MCP was a
wonder compared to OS/360.  First virtual memory system I ever worked
on.  It's a pity they didn't succeed.  I'm looking forward to someone
doing a emulator for one of their systems, now that MCP source and some
of the compilers are available.


Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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Actually, Netware was a ripoff of Xerox's network file system. I met someone
once who claimed that some of the code was virtually identical.

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Microsoft is a marketing company, not a technology one.


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