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Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output
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to
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of
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musical
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and
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transistor/mosfet amps then
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  I obviously refered to the *non*-comprehensive ones which yaputya
quoted (but you snipped), i.e. "@XXW THD < 0.YY% at 1kHz". By definition
the "T" in THD makes the THD meaningless if not accompied by a slew of
other relevant/related data. But I know that you know that.

  But to be [f|F]rank, it was mainly flame-bait. Sorry that you we're
the one that bit / got hooked.

[...]

Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output

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have to
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notion of
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distortion
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musical
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and
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transistor/mosfet amps then
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So you are a troll


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Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output
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amplifiers?
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have to
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notion of
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distortion
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musical
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sound, and
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transistor/mosfet amps then
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  Nope, it was a somewhat provocative response to a rather meaningless
specification. People who talk back to/at you aren't neccessarily
trolls. So why the ad Hominem? Don't you have a real argument?

  BTW, do you think that a troll would have let Trevor Wilson get away
with his "**Utterly and completely untrue." statement?

Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output

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amplifiers?
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have to
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notion of
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distortion
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musical
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sound, and
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transistor/mosfet amps then
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to
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Amplifier manufacturers nearly always quote the THD at 1kHz, it is a
perfectly valid way to compare amps as the other distortion measurements
will reflect the quality of the 1kHz result.
The manufacturers of the Altitude amp I quoted do the same:
http://www.fountek.net/products.asp?id11%4
Note that is the only distortion measuement they mention.

SC measured and plotted the THD vs power and THD vs frequency for
the Altitude and their 200W amp module. Since this is not a binary NG
I cannot post them here, but they clearyly show that the valve amp is
vastly inferior in distortion at all frequencies and powers.

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What's the difference between a provocative response and a troll, then?



  



Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output
On 17-May-2013 9:12 PM, yaputya wrote:

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amplifiers?
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have to
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notion of
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distortion
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musical
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sound, and
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transistor/mosfet amps then
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to
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THD is only a reliable measure of amplifier quality and performance if  
it is quoted as a maximum over the audio bandwidth at a reasonlble power  
output level. eg. 0.01% max THD 20hz - 20Khs @ 40w RMS per channel both  
channels driven

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--  
rgds,

Pete
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Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output

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amplifiers?
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have to
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notion of
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distortion
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musical
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sound, and
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transistor/mosfet amps then
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to
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quoted as a maximum over the audio bandwidth at a  
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channel both channels driven

It is preferable to display the data as a graph which shows THD over the
frequency range
for a given power, and THD over the power range for a given frequency, usually
1kHz.
Creating a 3-D plot showing all combinations would be even better, but would
require automated testing.
AFAIK nobody does this, since the 2D plots are adequate.
.
SC published 2D graphs for both the Altitude valve amp and their 200W module.





Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output
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  Yes, I do know what  manufacturers quote, but, as I said, that does
not make them particularly useful.

  *If* it's a very good amp, the 1kHz at XXW THD number will be
representative for other frequencies and power levels.

  The point is that most amps are *not* "very good amps", so it's silly
to trust some non-representative single THD number.

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  *That* is the kind of distortion data I'm referring to, for the
complete frequency and power range.

  And then we haven't even touched on crossover distortion and clipping
distortion, nor on the issue that the equal weighing of all harmonics in
THD is a matter of debate.

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  (IMO (and in my case)) A provocative response is on-topic and intended
to trigger an on-topic response. A troll is just intended to trigger
heated responses, anger, etc., i.e. just the emotions matter, not the
content.

  Thanks for your response.

Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output

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Crossover distortion will clearly be shown in THD specs at low power, and is  
just as bad (or worse) for any Vacuum tube amp as solid state using the same  
amplification class.
Easier and cheaper to build a decent class A solid state amp of the same (or  
more) power as a similar VT one these days if low power distortion is your  
prime consideration.


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No need to go anywhere near clipping with a modern solid state amp of  
course, unlike low power VT amps, since you can get about ten times the  
power output for less money.


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If *ALL* harmonics (individually and in total) are below the threshold of  
human hearing, as with any good modern solid state amp, (but not with VT  
amps) what does it matter?
Why in hell put up with increased even order distortion, just so it makes  
the odd order distortion figures look relatively lower, even when they are  
actually far higher is absolute terms for example? Only nutbags think like  
that. Plenty of those of course :-(
There are plenty of effects processors to digitally add even order  
distortion these days if that is what you prefer to clean audio, no need to  
buy a valve amp to do it any more.

Trevor.



Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output

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You should be able to see the SC measurements here (zoom in)
http://imageshack.us/a/img198/3375/distortionvalvevstransi.jpg

These are scanned from SC who hold all copyright etc.



Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output
Trevor wrote:
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Some people might prefer valve amps just because they "sound" better, not  
because they reproduce better. There are so many factors that affect the sound  
that gets in your ears - the speakers and the acoustics of the room being two  
huge ones. It may be that valve amps in combination with other factors produce a
 
result that those people enjoy listening to the most.



Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output
On 14-May-2013 8:51 AM, DavidW wrote:
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a
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The tonal qualities and smoothness of valve amps is legendary

--  
rgds,

Pete
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Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output


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Doesn't mean that its an accurate reproduction of what was recorded.  


Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output
On 14-May-2013 10:33 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
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But 'at the end of the day' you have an audio system to listen to music.  
What's the point of having a system you can pride yourself on as having  
some incredibly low distortion figures if it doesn't sound good to you?  
And everybody hears differently.

--  
rgds,

Pete
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Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output


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Yes.


Using that line you can just mangle the music electronically
as much as you like so that it sounds even better to you.

And that is in fact precisely what some kids do.

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Nope.  


Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output
On Tue, 14 May 2013 10:33:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"

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Yes, I went to a friends place to play an Album he had a Valve amp the
turn table (top of the line) and four Speakers (top of the line).
There seems to be a "feel" of music as well as audio excellence that
comes into effect. My own system was no slouch but this pleasant feel
of lows and highs can't be digitally shown (yet). Live concerts in
*proper* auditoriums are the way to hear and feel good music  
--  
Petzl
I started with nothing and I am proud to say I still have most of it left

Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output
On 14-May-2013 1:55 PM, Petzl wrote:

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I still prefer component (analog) video to HDMI (digital). It looks  
smoother more natural somehow, and better colour. Of course you need to  
have good equipment.

--  
rgds,

Pete
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Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output

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Sure is, that's why everyone uses solid state now :-)

Trevor.



Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output
Trevor wrote:
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Silly argument, everyone uses solid state because it is cheaper, easier  
to transport etc, nothing to do with tonal qualities, the vast majority  
do not carry on about little nuances of reproduction,extremely few carry  
on like wine snobs in their field.
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Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output

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Yep, and a dozen other benefits.

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Yep, don't want to add any "tonal qualities"

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Yep, happy to listen to the music, not (mass)debate endlessly about personal  
preferences.

Trevor.



Re: Question for Sylvia: Splitting AV output

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Right, "sounds better" is purely an opinion everyone gets to make for  
themselves.


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And I have no problem with that, only that they never admit is is purely  
their subjective opinion, and find the need to argue some absolute  
superiority when there demonstrably is none.

Trevor.





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