Pool chlorinator

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Any thoughts on solving the following issue?

I have a Saltmate pool chlorinator. For those who don't know, the operation,
as I understand it, is that two plates are immersed in a salt solution (the
pool water). Current is passed through across the plates, releasing chlorine
into solution. Problem is the plates end up white crap on them, requiring
immersion in acid to clean. The white crap only adheres to one of the
plates. According to the back panel, maximum current is 20 Amps at 6 Volts
DC. The current is controlled by a couple of Op amps, a pot and some other
stuff, which drives the gates of two, parallelled 65 Amp SCRs.

I spoke to a mate who sells pools and he informed me that the latest models
employ a polarity reversing scheme, which virtually eliminates white crap
build-up. I like that idea.

Anyway, after a little thought, I figure on adding a couple of relays. One
to switch the DC output and one to switch the mains. A 555 timer will switch
the mains off, first, then switch the DC relay, to prevent any contact
welding issues. Switching frequency will be once every 30 mins or so.

Any suggestions for a better system will be gratefully received.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



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Re: Pool chlorinator



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Ours is  a Chloromatic ESC-16. It's supposted to be a no clean type.

http://www.monarchpoolsystems.com/home.html

It has 3 connections - 2 to the electrodes/plates, the 3rd is a sense
electrode - a stainless bolt head.  The bolt head is between where the
electrodes entedr/exit the housing and is on the upstream side. The
electrode connection metal work is insulated from the water until it enters
the plate assembly.  It seems to work in an on/off fashion with the control
adjusting the duty cycle - ie run for x minutes, off for y minutes.





Re: Pool chlorinator


On Sat, 4 Nov 2006 16:45:39 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
composed:

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You *may* have trouble with the gas sensor. AIUI, the chlorinator must
sense a current between the gas sensor electrode and one of its
primary current carrying electrodes. An absence of current means that
the sensor is uncovered and probably enveloped in hydrogen, which in
turn means that the chlorinator will not turn on. I'd verify whether
the sensing circuit is polarity sensitive, and if so, I'd switch it as
well. Some time ago I reverse engineered a chlorinator of this type.
If I can find the circuits I'll email them to you.

- Franc Zabkar
--20%
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Re: Pool chlorinator



On Sat, 4 Nov 2006 16:45:39 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
composed:

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You *may* have trouble with the gas sensor. AIUI, the chlorinator must
sense a current between the gas sensor electrode and one of its
primary current carrying electrodes. An absence of current means that
the sensor is uncovered and probably enveloped in hydrogen, which in
turn means that the chlorinator will not turn on. I'd verify whether
the sensing circuit is polarity sensitive, and if so, I'd switch it as
well. Some time ago I reverse engineered a chlorinator of this type.
If I can find the circuits I'll email them to you.


**Thanks Franc. I note that the top of the line Saltmate also has an extra
'electrode'. I suspect you are correct and that it is some kind of sensor.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--

Re: Pool chlorinator



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(the
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Volts
other
models
One

Why should it matter if the electrodes are uncovered? Is it for fear of
accidental sparking setting off hydrogen that might be there?



Re: Pool chlorinator



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Or maybe to stop the build up of a pocket of chlorine gas? Very nasty stuff
to breathe.



Re: Pool chlorinator


my 2 cents worth...
When I looked in to doing the same sorter thing with my unit, I found due to
the special coatings on the "Cell" (to make it more efficient) when
reversing the polarity it reduced the current flow to a level that made the
idea not workable.

My research lead me to the understanding (of the auto cleaner type) that
they use a different type of cell.
As I had just paid for a new one - it was not practical for me to look into
this further.

With my experience I located and use a salt supply that doesn't leave as
much on the plates and I don't run the cell for a day or so after putting in
the salt.

But it is still about once a month for me, and I found it's best to dilute
the acid a bit - to "save" the coating on the cell.

Jeff

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Re: Pool chlorinator



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A better system has been developed by a friend of mine in Darwin at a
company called Aquatreat.  Unfortunately there is no internet information,
but he changed our salt chlorinator system for one of his, which I think ran
on some type of copper galvanic process (spelling?)  The system had the
advantage of NEVER needing salt descaling, cause it did not use salt and did
not make chlorine.  The water was so clean that the tree frogs used it for
laying eggs in (pity the filter system got most of them if we didn't fish
them out).  It is a brilliant system. but i don't know whether anyone in the
southern states knows about or sells it.  It's quite amazing what swimming
in water free of chlorine and salt is like!
If you are interested, ring them on 08 89472343.
www.aquatreat.com.au (just a holding page)

Rod

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Re: Pool chlorinator


On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 13:35:07 +1030, "Rod" <rodlg000ATyahooDOTcom>
wrote:

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I worked on a product similar to this many years ago. I left the
company because I got nervous about how much copper the system
actually put into the water.

IT basically uses 2 copper electrodes (might have a small silver
content, but I am not sure) and deposited copper in the water. In very
small amounts, copper is fine ( think the body needs it), but it is
poisonous in large amounts. IF one has a chlorinator of this type
which purposely deposits copper into the water then it is wise to have
the copper content of the water tested regularly.



Re: Pool chlorinator


On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 13:35:07 +1030, "Rod" <rodlg000ATyahooDOTcom>
wrote:

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Something similar to this system?
http://www.triangularwave.com/b3a.htm

Re: Pool chlorinator


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Copper/silver ionizers have been used in pools for decades, and they
do help in controlling algae (copper is an algaecide). You can also
buy copper additives that are very effective, though the copper
precipitates out as bicarbonate within a week or so - hence continual
replacement by an ionizer is effective. Copper discolours some fabrics
and hair BTW.

There is a number of other non-chlorine algaecides, various amines and
quaternary ammonium ones: rosin amine D-acetate, cetyl trimethyl ammonium
bromide lauryl pyridium chloride, etc.

With any of them, you still need chlorine anyhow, as they, like copper,
don't control bacteria.

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The bad smell of a public pool isn't typically chlorine, but chloramines,
which are caused by a buildup of body wastes (urine mainly) which break
down to ammonia compounds.

I have a pretty comprehensive document from the CSIRO about pool water
treatment here. The product manufacturers stuff is all pretty biassed
and unscientific IME. The CSIRO document is really good!

The important point in maintaining effective sterilization with minimal
chlorine content is to keep the TDS (total dissolved solids) down to
the minimum required for pH buffering, plus maybe a bit of isocyanurate
stabiliser. All non-carbonate ionic content does is lock up chlorine so
it's effectively unavailable. We recently had to fix our pool which had
reached 5000ppm TDS, when it should be maybe 300ppm,  due to us not
wasting enough water through backwashing!

Clifford Heath.

Re: Pool chlorinator - Update



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**Thanks for all the responses. I contacted Saltmate (something I should
have done first) and found them to be very helpful. Of course Saltmate
suggested that my idea of reversing the Voltage at the plates was an
over-simplification and that their system was a good deal more complex and
sophisticated (I expected a response such as this), but that the real
problem was the electrodes themselves. Apparently, they're constructed from
a titanium base material, coated with platinum. My electrodes have a
standard coating on the cathodes and a 6 X thickness coating on the anodes.
The self cleaning electrodes have a 6 X coationg on both sets of electrodes
(makes sense). The cost of the cell (the part with the electrodes in it) is
around $800.00! Fabricating titanium electrodes is well beyond my abilities.
I don't even want to think about platinum plating.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



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Re: Pool chlorinator - Update


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Check out directpoolsupplies.com.au



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