Plug Pack and External Supply Ban

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** Hi to all,

as some of you know already   -   new  &  COMPULSORY  " MEPS "  regulations
are due to come into force in each Australian state from April 2008 that
will have the effect of making virtually  ALL  transformer plug packs (both
AC and DC output types) and most other external power supplies ( inc SMPS)
currently on sale **  ILLEGAL ** !!

( MEPS  =  Minimum Energy Performance Standard )

The regulations and prohibitions will then apply to all new stock items,
supplies offered with second hand equipment and all such supplies used in
hire situations.

Some types are excluded  -   inc. battery chargers, external power supplies
with multiple outputs and supplies rated at over 250 watts output.

Knocked out are all currently available iron transformer based external (
single voltage) supplies and most external SMPS including the ones currently
supplied with laptop PCs.

The regulators neither know nor care  a HOOT  if suitable replacement power
supplies exist for each device that presently uses such external supplies.

In the case of simple AC output supplies  -  NO replacement is presently
available,  at all.

See this page for an explanation of some of the expected problems with this
latest, whacko Greenie inspired nonsense.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/external-psu.htm


If you have an ongoing need for plug-pack supplies, particularly AC output
ones, might be a good idea to stock up soon.



.......   Phil




 



Re: Plug Pack and External Supply Ban



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http://www.energyrating.gov.au/library/pubs/200702-ris-eps.pdf
The document is a Regulatory Impact Statement. It is not legislation.
The various State Parliments that regulate the MEPS program have'nt even
passed legislation, much less the legislation even being written. The April 2008
is a "proposed" date for the regulations to come into force. (page17).
And there is no guarantee that the recommendations within the report will be
accepted for legislation.

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Re: Plug Pack and External Supply Ban



"dmm"
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**  Huh  ???    I did not quote that doc.


AFAIK  -   no new legislation is required to be passed,  since MEPS
regulations are simply added to the existing regulations made under the
relevant sections of each state's Electricity / Electrical Safety Acts.

Did you have any real point to make ????

Any good reason to say the states will oppose this MEPS initiative?

On what grounds?

Local manufacture of E-Core plug packs .........




.......  Phil










Re: Plug Pack and External Supply Ban



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This was suppposed to be introduced this year (2007) but the RIS process was
flawed and had to be redone, hence it has been put back to 2008.  This is
the regulators website for the scheme
http://www.energyrating.gov.au/eps2.html

MEPS regulations are indeed already in legislation and the scope is extended
when new product categories are added, which is pretty routine act of
parliament. Most major suppliers have been aware of this for some time and
a lot have started switching over to SMPS type adapters.

Apart from the AC output issue, there are a couple of hidden interpretative
issues.  Example, if the ac adapter has its output hardwired to the
apparatus then it is still subject to the MEPS requirements. Initially many
people thought hardwired devices were exempt because the supply was
integral.  The deciding factor is however whether the transformer is
internal or external and not whether it is detachable or integral.

This scheme was first raised as likely as far back as far as 2000.  A lot of
suppliers and equipment manufacturers were invited to comment but many
weren't overly concerned as there isn't much cost difference between an E
iron cored xfmr and a SMPS based unit using off-the-shelf solutions,
especially considering the big increase in the cost of silicon steel over
the last 2-3 years.

The driving force behind this is the 'standby power' consumption issue and
common sense hasn't really prevailed.  The ac adapter was seen as a way of
capturing a huge number of products in the regulatory net without having to
separate them into categories.  Unfortunately, as I see it, it is impossible
to sensibly deal with the issue without at least broadly categorising
devices.  This POV and other stakeholder comments were submitted during the
development process of the scheme but largely ignored in favour of the views
expressed by commissioned consultants.

Set-top boxes, home entertainment systems (incl TVs) and computers will
probably all be covered by MEPS by 2012.

In some ways, the AGO is becoming megalomaniacal, just as the ACMA (nee ACA,
nee Austel) did in the 1990's. If the question "why regulate?" is asked it
seems the answer "Because we can." prevails.




Re: Plug Pack and External Supply Ban



 " Dave the PITA Drongo "

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** The process is still  MASSIVELY  flawed  -  dickhead.

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**  Tells you nothing   -  cos it was written by morons.


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** So "routine"  =  totally undemocratic conspiracy against the public
interest ??

For the uninitiated, "regulations" go through parliament with no possibility
of debate.


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** Obviously  YOU  have no idea what the issues are.

 Read this,  learn something about AC power adaptors.

 http://sound.westhost.com/articles/external-psu.htm



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**  Pedantic twaddle.


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** There are no "equipment makers" in Australia  -  dickhead.

Only importing operations run by turds in suits ( former used car salesmen
mostly) with zero tech knowledge.

They have no idea what the potential problems are or that most current
generation SMPS adaptors do  NOT comply with the proposed regulations.


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** No fooling   ???????????????

How surprising as the ONLY person commissioned to write a report proved (
when contacted) to be utterly ignorant about external PSUs.  His name is
Richard Collins,  a self employed PV (photo voltaic) guru and motor bike nut
from Umina Beach in NSW.

His " report "  consists entirely of bits and pieces mindlessly lifted from
other published reports.

An outrage.


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**  Nonsense  -   the AGO is a totally put up job by the Australian Greens
Party,  who demanded it be created and funded or they would not allow the
GST  laws to pass through the upper house in Canberra.

The Libs reluctantly caved in, appointed a couple of dozen bureaucrats to
run the Office and now every Greenie halfwit on the planet imagines it is
THEIR  means of political control over the rests of us.

Sickening.



......   Phil



Re: Plug Pack and External Supply Ban


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Rod has done a good job.  We raised similar matters such as sumnation of
leakage currents, harmonics, safety and so forth in a submission to the
department in 2005.

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I have met him several times.  He isn't ignorant but was retained as a
consultant to do a particular task - that is prove that this scheme would
provide xxx savings etc.  Initially this scheme was intended to be adopted
this year, but over-zealousness meant someone forgot to see if it would
unfairly or unnecessarily disadvantage industry.  Hence the same guy was
then commissioned to prepare the RIS.  He was never supposed to
independently study and prove the need for the scheme - just to report
figures (that could be used by others).

For those who may not know, the Regulatory Impact Statement (RIS) is
intended to show to parliament how a proposed regulation impacts on the
community and cost versus benefit.  But it is really only a very large and
expensive sales pitch justifying why xxx Govt department needs to flex its
muscles.  There will never be a RIS tabled that goes against a regulatory
scheme, unless it deals with public service pay and perks.

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So do something about it.  Did you submit comment on this
http://www.energyrating.gov.au/standbydata/Basket-of-Products-V5.pdf
or comment on the RIS itself (comment closed 30 April 2007 but they would
still accept late submissions of technical validity)? Did you attend the
public meetings or join one of the industry bodies representing
stakeholders?  How about writing to members of parliament pointing out the
flawed aguments in the RIS?




Re: Plug Pack and External Supply Ban



"Dave"

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 ** Who the fuck is this " we "  you keep alluding to ??????

Must be some high and mighty organisation,  but you never say WHO.

Seems your submission  was a total waste of time  -    right ?

Got filed in the waste paper basket,  I bet.



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** Collins is ignorant about external PSUs  -  barely seen one in his life.

   So are you.


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**  That makes him a paid lackey  -  not a expert consultant.

    What a SCAM  !!


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**  That makes it nothing less than a  SICKENING  scam.


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**  I am.

Who do you think is behind most of the info on Rod Elliot's page.


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**  Not related to the plug pack PSU issue.


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**  Like most people,  I was totally unaware of the proposals until April
10th,  when Ross Herbert posted here about a notice he saw in a Perth
newspaper.


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** How about you go drop dead.

I now have a pretty damn good idea of how this scam is being played out and
why -  it is a precursor to the  CRAZY  incandescent lamp ban.

All whacko Greenie politics  -  no public benefit exists and no technical
justification exists for either.

The head of the AGO has been in contact with Rod Elliot to-day and hopefully
will refer the page to someone with half a brain  -   but I doubt it.




.......   Phil





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If 'security theatre' wasn't bad enough, this 'enviro theatre' is even worse.

It seems that there are now many bandwagons to jump on if the pollie has a
particularly contentious piece of legislation to push through.

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I assume that after this law is passed,  one can still buy a chassis-
mount transformer from DSE etc, throw it in a zippy box, with a mains
cord and an AC/DC output socket same as a plugpack, and use it as they
used to use the plugpack ?  Will this be illegal, or legit way around
the problem ?  (assuming the small chassis mount transformers aren't
banned, Im sure most on here will be doing this)

Will the standard 50 VA Ironcore quartz halogen transformer (since
they are intended to be primarily used inside building, or shop
fitting wiringl, and therefore might not be considered an "external
power supply") be covered by this ?  After all a significant number of
them come with a factory fitted cord and lead, and provide a 12v
output ?  (note: I dont have much time for power wasting quartz
halogen lights, but for other applications these transformers are
excellent value per watt, robust and reliable, are reasonably safe by
design, (enclosed screw terminals, thermally protected, double
insulated, snap-top lid over the mains connections) already housed,
and easy to mount with 2 screws.  The ones that come with a cord are
also great for beginners as a cheap/safe 12vac supply with generous
output current .

Im well aware that there are electronic versions of these transformers
- but they give the shittiest, noisiest output waveform, usually in
bursts of high frequency depending on load, and for that matter, need
a substantial load before they even deliver the required voltage at
the output !

Will portable stepdown/isolation transformers ie 240-110v be caught up
in this - or will they just have to be 250va minimum - a real waste if
they are just being used for imported appliances with tiny power
consumption
and it should be noted that with many small wattage appliances, it
isnt practical to replace the internal transformer (if 110v) with a
240v equivalent as the same size/shape/mounted unit might not be
available.

What happens with sensitive instrumentation, scientific/medical, and
even amps such as a design published by SC some years back that needed
a totally separate power supply to "eliminate noise (hum?)" from the
output ?  Technically - that is a "separate power supply".  (I cant
remember if it was more than 250va though.)


(Imagine how the poor bloody audiophiles will be affected by all
this ; - not to mention the risk that a fire in a SMPS may ignite the
gallons of  snake oil that are no doubt in the vicinity)

Without wanting to start arguments on politics,

We have 2 parties, Labor and Liberal contesting the election.  Liberal
(from what we see in the news) seems to range from "not doing anything
to deal with climate change" to "not rushing into everything, but
moving slowly on it"

The Labor party on the other hand, seems eager to "do almost anything
and everything as soon as possible" to deal with climate change.

If this proposed "transformer ban" and the recent one on "banning
incandescant light bulbs" are anything to go by, for a party (Liberal)
that is seen as "doing little or nothing", can you imagine what other
possible electrical legislation/bans could emerge under a Labor
government and its policies on this ??

I suppose one only has to look at the Beattie govt. in QLD in recent
years regarding electrical licensing laws and technicians etc to get a
possible answer on this.

What it all boils down to, we have a shocking state of education and
knowlege - especially in technical fields.  I have noticed this many
times lately when it becomes impossible to even begin to explain
things like power factor (when discussing CFL's and such things), base
load in power stations and (for that matter) how 3 phase power and
distribution operates.

What about the real wastage issues in this:

We have PC's sitting in our homes, (and usually more than ONE) often
running 24 hours a day, and each pulling similar power to a 2 slice
toaster (about 450w) - and unlike the toaster, will have a terrible
power factor to boot. When they aren't used, they drag several watts
in standby power from the mains, just like many other appliances in
our homes.  This is made many times worse in a lot of premises, by the
power used in air-conditioning then needed (or the extra work that it
does) to remove this heat from the premises

The general public will just listen to - and believe -  this
"transformer ban" crap, like it does most other things, and wouldn't
have a collective brain big enough to understand any of this, or put
any faith in any qualified or knowledgeable person (like the webpage
you directed us to). There isn't any public voice to tell otherwise,
as they would be a "climate change sceptic" and therefore "evil". At
the end of the day, a lot of this stuff (and worse) will still be
illegally imported from China, and being illegal, will be of worst
quality than now - just as substandard cords and mains products come
in now.

Anyone (the few who still seem to be around - that is) with any
genuine intelligence, knowledge and ability in this country is
regarded as a dork, wanker, up themselves, and treated like crap, and
ignored, or even abused (even in this group) Meanwhile, we seem to be
descending into an obese, stupid, ignorant, feral nation, and I don't
think we need an expert to tell where it will end if it continues.


Re: Plug Pack and External Supply Ban



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If you mean as a one-off job by you as a consumer, then no problems.  But
you cannot make these and then sell them.

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Good question.  They seem to fit within the guidelines here:
http://www.energyrating.gov.au/eps2.html so they are probably subject to the
scheme.

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No they are outside the scope. The scheme applies to ELV output devices
only.

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Medical equipment that is registered with the TGA is exempt.

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I think it is more to do with jumping on the bandwagon driven by the EU and
noisy enviro-centric political movements.  By riding along with these sorts
of things 'we' can justify still burning fossil fuel to produce electricity.
The USA has similar schemes and targets in place.

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Shhhhhhhh !!!  Or else we'll have a power quality regulations scheme.  Just
like the EU where everything has to meet the harmonics and flicker standard.

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Then keep an eye on the proposed regulatory schemes and comment where
approriate.  I think very few people commented on the knock-on and
consequential effects when it was out for public comment.




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"kreed"
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** Probably have to do that -  if you want a low voltage AC supply in the
future.

 Or a DC one that does not damage electronics and infect AV links with noise

-  nor pose a serious electrocution risk to the family.


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**  No -  lighting transformers are in another category.

They do not have an "off load" condition as control is on the mains voltage
side.


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 **  No -  only low voltage external PSUs.

  34,000,000 of them,  in Australia alone.



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**  Expect to see all non-rechargeable cells banned soon.


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**  Own a clothes drier ??

 Massively wasteful when you can use * solar*  and * wind power * to do the
same job better.

 Not a peep out of the Greenies on this so far.

 Maybe they like to use them at home.



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** You're kidding -  right ?

   In this group .........



......    Phil



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Sigh, what ever would nutcases do without greenies to blame.

<at least he doesn't write in caps>

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Greenies are blamed because were the start of all these things, and
regardless of whether they are acting with what they believe are good
intentions or not, at the end of the day, the "environment" sadly just
gets used and twisted as another political tool to tax, control and
regulate the masses, and increase corporate with little or nothing
being done that will actually work, or take real steps to help the
alleged problem.

I wonder how much "greenhouse gas" has been generated by war
activities in Iraq for example, in a war that few seem to want, and
many believe is illegal, and seems to be a totally lost cause anyway.
Probably much more than the combined "waste" power of every plugpack
that was ever made.

Actually note in the federal budget last night "$7.9 million to phase
out inefficient light bulbs"



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Crikey, are we going to get a subsidy on CFL's?

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Probably about half of what is produced by the whinging bloody greenies.
Go and group hug a gay whale FFS



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to keyboard and composed:

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I wonder how much CO2 is created by just talking about it ... every
single day.

BTW, I propose that we boycott fizzy drinks.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

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Another problem that can happen with many SMPS supplies is their
"minimum output load" requirement.  In some cases, if the load device
drops below a certain current, the SMPS can shut down, cycle on/off,
vary its output voltage or other highly undesirable things like this.
In this case, the usual "fix" is to put a wire-wound resistor -
typically 5-10w - across the output rail as a "dummy load" to ensure
that there is always a minimum load there.

In an external device - particularly a generic plugpack - or inline
type (laptop style) supply, that in the real world might be connected
to almost anything (therefore the load can vary enormously, or even
vary up and down during the device's normal use), it has to be
designed to cope with this possible variation.

People who use PC power supplies (because they are cheap and readily
available) for applications where they supply much less load than they
are intended to supply will also cop this, same applies if the supply
has multiple voltage outputs and not all are used, - where one or more
rail(s) might need a minimum load on them to make the supply work
properly or at all.

This process also wastes power, and the heat generated can contribute
to the reduction of life of other components nearby. this effect might
be worthy of inclusion on that excellent website on the topic.

Ironcore transformer based supplies don't do this (unregulated
plugpacks can rise in voltage with small or no load), and regulated
ones definitely not.


While on the subject of REAL and in most cases easily avoidable power
wastage - some devices that have got an internal mains transformer/
supply - but the power switch on the device doesn't turn off the
incoming mains, but instead turns off the secondary of the internal
transformer.  This means that the transformer is always on, drawing
magnetising current even though the user believes that the unit is
fully turned off. Most of these devices probably dont need standby
power as well.

The Dick Smith T-2000 temperature controlled soldering station (now
sold as the DSE T-2002) I had in the early 80's was an example of this
design, and no doubt its done in other devices as well, probably to
cut costs by using a cheaper switch that isn't mains rated, as well as
not having to bring the mains wiring all the way to the front of the
unit to a switch, insulating the terminals etc.









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