OT: Snowy Hydro

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary

Translate This Thread From English to

Threaded View
<http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-16/snowy-hydro-scheme-funding-boost-to-secure-electricity-supply/8358502

"In one hour it could produce 20 times the 100 megawatts an hour  
expected from the battery proposed by the South Australian Government,  
but would deliver it constantly for almost a week," [Mr Turnbull] said.

I thought he'd know better than to come out with such gibberish. Maybe  
he was misquoted.

That aside, Snowy Hydro is energy limited, because there is only so much  
water (less in extended dry spells). If it produces a higher power  
output, it can do so for less time. That is why it's not used for base  
load - it would empty its reservoirs.

Maybe the government intends to use the extra power generation only  
during extreme demand to avert rolling blackouts. That wouldn't use much  
of the water in the scheme of things, but I seriously question whether  
the proposal is the cheapest solution.

Sylvia.

Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
Stupider than anyone Else
  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
  ** It's not it not wrong - just a bit awkward.


Quoted text here. Click to load it

 ** The high lakes in the Snowy scheme get filled up at night.  

  With water from the lower ones.  

   It's a huge "water battery".  

Quoted text here. Click to load it

** It can do that, but more importantly it allows the storage of excess power in the grid at any time of day.  


Quoted text here. Click to load it

** Probably is, when you take into account the limited life of the thousand batteries and the electronic converters needed to turn DC into AC.



... Phil



Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
 Phil Allison wrote:

Typo correction:


 ** Probably is, when you take into account the limited life of the thousands of batteries and the electronic converters needed to turn DC into AC.



 ... Phil


Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
On 16/03/2017 6:07 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

There isn't an excess of power, there's only an excess of capacity.  
During the day, the marginal excess capacity is gas generation. I  
doesn't make economic sense to use gas to pump water just so that that  
water can be used to displace gas generation on another day.

At night, the marginal generation is sometimes coal based. While it does  
make sense to use coal during the night to pump water that can be used  
later to displace gas, it also substitutes a more polluting form of  
generation for a less polluting one.

In any case, we're not short of generating capacity per se, we're short  
of peak generating capacity that's only required in extreme weather. All  
building additional hydro-generating capacity using pumped storage will  
achieve is to discourage investment in other capacity for use for a  
significant part of the day. It doesn't nothing to address the extreme  
peak capacity issue.

Quoted text here. Click to load it
The cheapest solution to the problem we actually have is probably diesel.

Sylvia.

Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Don't use gas, use solar... gotta build it first though.

--  
This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software  

Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
Phil Allison wrote:

Quoted text here. Click to load it

 ** That is complete BOLLOCKS.  

 Excess power generation occurs all the time, whenever the load drops.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

** More complete BOLLOCKS.  

  The Snowy provides peak load power every day.  

  Pumping goes on every night.  

  Stop posting you mad, unsupported guesses as facts.  


.....  Phil  

Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
On 17/03/2017 9:28 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Power generation equals power consumption, second by second, always.

Sylvia.


Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
On 17/03/17 10:39, Sylvia Else wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

No. Not if you measure power as heat generated in the coal-fired boilers
and consumption as power extracted from the generators.

The heat production has a huge time-constant - like 24 hours - so you
cannot simply increase heat for each daily power peak. You have to run
with enough for the peak, and waste or store the extra in-between.

Clifford Heath.


Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
On 16/03/2017 10:24 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

That doesn't seem a very sensible measure of generation, since some of  
the heat is unavoidably lost due to the laws of thermodynamics.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Coal fired generators are run with very slow changes in power output for  
that reason. Variations in overall load are handled by other generation  
with quicker response times.

Sylvia.

Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
On 17/03/17 14:45, Sylvia Else wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

No. The heat is released into the atmosphere instead of wasting water.
It's a simple matter of diverting the combusted gases away from the
boiler.


Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
On 3/16/2017 5:07 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Its called pumped storage, it has been going on in the Snowies for more  
than 50 years.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Pumped storage wouldn't work in South Australia coz its flat, and any  
new pumped storage in the Snowies will probably take the best part of 10  
years to come online.


Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
On 16/03/17 23:17, keithr0 wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Not necessarily, though it would take longer than 100 days. See

<https://theconversation.com/snowy-hydro-gets-a-boost-but-seawater-hydro-could-help-south-australia-74442

Clifford Heath

Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
On 16/03/2017 4:39 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it
"In one hour it could produce 20 times the 100 megawatts an hour
Quoted text here. Click to load it

They could put these at the bottom of the dams to increase the capacity  
without extra earthworks...

https://tinyurl.com/kschkcf

That's if the dams are deep enough to be useful...
--
Cheers,
Chris.



Re: OT: Snowy Hydro

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Adani does not care whether the government is Liberal or Labor. They
are happy to bribe anybody. Getup has summarised some of their
misdeeds here <http://tinyurl.com/qj6ppev . Getup is biased but they
provide evidence to back up their claims.

Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
IMO the federal govt should be spending whatever it takes to
keep Hazelwood going, because its right next to brown coal
that is useless for anything else, and if fools like Trevor don't
like that, they should go and fuck themselves.  
  

Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
On 27/03/2017 7:41 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

That means an entirely new plant.

 > because its right next to brown coal
Quoted text here. Click to load it

leave it in the ground and in a few million years, with a bit of luck,  
it will turn into black coal and won't be quite so useless. As it is,  
brown coal is coal that's not quite aged long enough. Like a good wine,  
it should be left to age a little more. Then future generations can  
derive the benefit, if any, from it.

--  

Xeno

Re: OT: Snowy Hydro

Quoted text here. Click to load it

No doubt you think that the federal government should start making
axes and other tools out of stone instead of wasting the stones that
are just left lying on the ground. I suggest you spend your time
worrying about all the wind that is not being used to make electricity
and is useless for anything else.


Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
  
Quoted text here. Click to load it

<reams of your shit flushed where it belongs>  
  

Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
On 28/03/2017 2:53 PM, Gordon Levi wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it
They have a surfeit of *wind* in Queensland just at the moment!   ;-)

--  

Xeno

Site Timeline