OT: More Ebay !@#$

Yes, I noticed that silly rubbish too yesterday, also the other recently introduced methods are listed that are basically "sanitising" feedback. Ebay seems to do nothing about non-paying winning bidders, and in some sections (ie CD's) in my experience there would be easily a 40-50% "non payer" ratio on sales, costing you more and more in re- listing fees

I signed up to oztion this week, just did the ID verification and will start soon and see how it goes. Thinking of trying a store - the $5 a month seems reasonable if it gets good results.

I certainly do NOT intend to put up with Ebay (via compulsory paypal) ripping the cream (and more) out of any income I make from my sales and unlike CC merchants in real shops - being unable to pass on the fee to buyers. its really not worth the effort of listing many items.

Having been a seller on ebay for about 5 years now, I notice a trend n recent weeks (especially since the controversy over "paypal only" rules) the number of Ebay buyers is drying up and what is selling is going for a lot less than it was. - however interest rates and lower consumer spending could be the main reason for all I know.

This will lead to the bad situation of sellers putting minimum starting prices for fear of "giving the item away" by starting at 99c

I (as a seller) always liked the .99 starting price with most things it seems to attract a lot of interest, (competing bids), the activity makes the item look "alive" and "wanted" , usually a results in fair and accurate market price, and often would result in a sale at more than expected price :)

What Ebay Australia doesn't seem to realise is that if sellers start doing this, or just not listing/listing less/listing only rubbish they are happy to get rid of even if its only $1, but nothing of real value , it reduces the incentive for buyers to browse as often or at all, as the range is reduced, or the buyer "perceives" something is out of their price range or not good value. Leads to less bidders, and less sellers and the vicious circle continues downwards.

I noticed my own feedback jumped overnight by about 10% just recently. It seems they've also changed how they calculate that.

There are two widely discussed ways of addressing the paypal-only situation. One is simply to build an extra amount into the P&H to cover feebay's paypal ripoff fee i.e. directly pass it on to the buyer - and even say so in the listing. The other is cash on pickup (until they kill that off). Of course whether it is actually cash-on-pickup or nudge-wink-direct-deposit feebay wouldn't know.

I wonder if it will actually get any amount of churn out of this fiasco.

They now retrospectively include feedback from repeat business with the same seller (backdated to the 1990s) and are dumping negatives by people who were deregistered, suspended etc etc. Thats why yours jumped. Take a look at:

Apparently even if its pickup - you HAVE to accept paypal if the buyer wants to use it, and obviously its hard to charge a postage and handling fee for pickup if they already have used paypal.

Remember too that the P&H fee will now also be "fee-d" as it goes through paypal (unless they plan to exempt this portion - which I doubt) so you have to add on the fee & the portion of extra fee that the charge generates trying to cover the fee etc etc - into infinity :).

as for putting these things in your listing,

Ebay have ways of telling when you put certain phrases and words into the description, for example try listing "western union" anywhere in an item description and it wont even let you upload it as an item, until you remove those words first.

other "listing breaches" that get your item cancelled include:

Accepting cash through the post, Trying to charge extra for paypal

Im sure they will be on the lookout for anyone mentioning your suggestions too - unfortunately.

Strangely if you put foul language in there "shit", "c*ck" etc for example (i found this out by accident when listing CD for sale without checking the track names for foul language first) your listing will still upload, and will "exist" for the auction time but will not show up in the "category" and therefore be "invisible" to the public unless they happen to find it by accident by looking at "sellers other items for sale" via an "auctiva" gallery, or unless they know the item number and type it in.

I should try putting 'oztion.com.au" somewhere in a listing and see what the system does :)

Their amount of churn might not be enough to set the world on fire - but this Ebay "policy" is certain to be one of the best generators of publicity and new business for them that they have ever had.

I never even heard of oztion before this ebay rubbish policy hit the headlines about a month back.

Ah so, grasshopper.

Ah, maybe I'd need to do what the shire does with rates. (They don't charge a % for late payment, as apparently there were legal issues with that AND it was seen to penalise the finacially challenged. So they loaded the % on - without announcing it and give a discount for prompt payment.). So I'd load up the "handling" element, and that comes off for pickup/cash_at_the_door. And NO paypal at the door.

(snip)

I'm sure they have a crawler with that word in there as a no-no.

According to oztion webpage, they have done well out of the paypal fiasco :

I'm a reasonably large eBay seller, but I can see a bright side to all this. I've long resented the stranglehold eBay has had with online 'auctions', especially since Sold.com.au folded. I think these recent changes will be the last straw for a significant amount of people, I too have noticed the drop off and also notices how Oztion is really picking up very recently. So this is all good I'm hoping :)

I'll wager eBay will back off and at least drop the Paypal bullshit eventually... but hopefully enough momentum will be behind the alternatives by then.

I can look at this from the other perspective as a buyer, and while I only buy CD's and music DVD's, I really can't see any difference in the buying and selling under what will be a new system. From what I can see, the big sellers are still all there, ands still selling well. plus pay-pal suits me, as it's quick, easy and probably as safe as any other payment way we have. In fact I will soon see just how safe pay-pal is as I have a non-delivery claim going at the moment. But I do buy a large number of CD's // DVD's so I,m bound to strike a wrong-un, every so often. With regard to E-bay and the way it treats it's clients, I think they will always protect there sellers, as they generate more income then the buyers pay-pal fee's do. And while the buyer can spend there money elsewhere the sellers are stuck in one place.

This is demonstrated by the review of the negative / neutral / positive feedback system, and while you can no longer flag a negative purchase, nothing's stopping you from reporting a bad deal. I had one recently where the seller wanted "direct deposit" but failed to supply any banking details, When I e-mailed and asked for details, she said I was rude for asking and refused to supply details. She then logged a non-payment claim on me, plus negative feedback. E-bay backed her fully and I was told as I was uncooperative the bad feedback could not be removed. They once again backed the seller, even though I had no way of complying or completing the deal. Had a Pay-pal only provision been in place, this would not and could not have happened.

Oztion play the same game with there relationship with the sellers and the buyers have no protection. I find the prices on Oztion in the CD / DVD sections to be higher, except one SHONK who should be thrown out seems to operate with impunity despite numerous complaints. he also offers free postage, and seems to loose 50% of his postal packages. failed to deliver, lost in transit, unable to locate order, Then he gets a few glowing feedback reports, no doubt written by himself, then the shonky deals start again. and despite many complaints Oztion sit on there hands and do bugger all

But like all things Time will tell and judge what works and who survives

bassett

I guess it all boils down to if you like paypal or not. Personally, I don't, and prefer doing bank transfers.

I had to get a Paypal payment refunded this year - it took forever even though there was no question where the problem lay (the seller)... I eventually got the 'refund'... one small problem: Paypal's idea of a 'refund' is to credit your Paypal account - no true refund was available according to them.

I also plain don't like that Paypal and eBay are owned by the same company... and I especially have resented the increasingly overt way they've been shoving it down our throats. EG, when checking out in eBay to pay for an item, in recent months the Paypal option is large and prominent, almost implying that is the only option - bank deposit is down below in small type.

Anyway, thats just how it is I guess.

As for Oztion, I can recall soon after it started - whoever is running that show would often go through the seller's feedback and remove all the negative feedbacks... I remember that quite well.

What can you do - they all suck one way or the other, one just has to make their choices I suppose. Ultimately, the online auction thing has been a great thing.

I don't think so. It's all about Ebay just being plain evil and not giving anyone any option any more. Forever upping fees and now trying to screw everyone that one last time. It's been going on for many years now, but this latest one is the mother of all screwjobs. I can't imagine what they will want to do next.

I actually like PayPal as a service, it's ridiculously convenient for both buyer and seller, inside and outside of eBay. Much more convenient than bank transfers. Fees aside of course.

That's what everyone hates. But it wasn't so bad until all this forced crap started though.

There are many more examples like that too. They are the masters of visual and interactive manipulation.

Dave.

(snip)

Not necessarily. You are just as reliant on the seller providing their paypal account info (address) as the direct deposit banking details.

Yep, that could be a factor. I'm a bricks and mortar type retailer and am finding that business has declined. The mortgage belt is hurting. Mortgage repayments plus increasing petrol costs plus rising food bills = less money for other item.

How do work that out ??? If the seller (or buyer) does not give this info then they cannot get an account and therefore no deal.

Yes, SAME IN BOTH CASES.

Read what he said, then read what I said.

Incorrect, IF your registered with pay-pal, it's simply a matter of clicking "pay now" and everything's automatic,, Not only don't you know the sellers real name, you don't also have access to his banking details, Where-as with DD, the seller is obliged to provide BSB and account details plus a name.

DD is just as easy if you have E-bank, but many maintain that electronic transfer takes 3 days to register on there accounts, and they seem to use this as an excuse for late delivery. bassett

if you have a Commonwealth account, it easily takes 3 days for funds to show up. ANZ its usually 2, but if its another anz customer doing the transfer its pretty much instant.

Clearance times for non-cash payments seem about 4 days in practice.

PayPal makes international transaction much simpler, where DD is not a practical option.

correct, and a big point. DD usually attracts a $22AUD international bank fee. It will at CBA, other banks may vary.

Western Union in many cases, costs more than the product. So PP simplifies International transactions. A necessary evil if you deal internationally.

Don...

practical

agree. Unless the seller is a card merchant, I cant think of another practical way of international buying for the average person.

practical

Similar to Paypal in that you can make and receive payments, but Australian owned (afaik) and they deposit the money straight into your bank account.