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Re: OT GW
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Corrupt law enforcement and legal system that represents the state's
interests, does nothing to protect and in fact blatantly violates
my human rights or common law rigthts, involved in dealing drugs,
frequent bashings of innocent people
bribery, illegal falsified search warrants to critics of gov or police
(gold coast), pretty much no oversight or punishment
Selective justice and charges laid/not laid based on class, race etc ?
What planet do you live on ?


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Mostly thanks to the benefits of electricity, and the invention of the
internal combustion engine allowing us affordable and fast transport,
plentiful and cheap (despite the coles/woolies duopoly trying to stop
this) easy moving around of food, fast access to medical care, and
relieving us from back breaking and costly manual labour and injury.

Take these things away, like the warmists and greens want to -  and
watch over time longevity plummet.


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Rubbish
Removal of freedom to defend yourself from death or bodily harm by
preventing law abiding citizens from defending themselves, or owning
firearms
while criminals run around with them, leaving your protection (racket)
up to the authorities who will only "protect" you based on criteria
mentioned above, and will burn you if you are middle class and attempt
the slightest thing to protect yourself, your property or your
family.. You may be legally right, but you will probably lose your
home and savings trying to prove this, and everything if you fail.
It is a total joke and a greater threat than "criminals" going up
against an armed public.


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Unless its by those in uniform.


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Could live without it, as it would be cheaper for me to take it to the
dump myself, rather than pay the mandatory garbage collection fee,
which I cannot opt out of


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Not relevant to taxation.  Privatised and rapidly becoming
unaffordable to many


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I'm glad you didnt say good roads ;)

These could be paid for by fuel tax/excise and registration  I'm happy
to pay my share of road costs as a road user, but most of the above
does not get spent on roads if you are outside the capital or major
areas, you are made to pay (often more due to distances you have to
travel) more but get less.
(fuel excise is probably a better option as it accurately represents
road usage.)


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Re: OT GW


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Dang, I get bills for those.
Are you just not reading the fine print?

Re: OT GW
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* A bureaucracy of public and publically-funded corporations that
  suck up about half the total workforce to reduce GDP.
* First-class travel for senior public servants.
* Business class travel for public servants.
* Free travel for current and past MP.
* Huge grants for "scientific research" that supports CAGW alarmism
* A whole department based on CAGW alarmism.
* Subsidies to install insulation to burn down your house.
* Subsidies to build school halls; to be torn down a year later.
* Subsidies to install PV solar so that you can rip off the
  electricity company by making them buy electricity at 4 times the
  market rate.
* Handouts to purchase plasma TVs so that you can watch them float
  away at the next flood
* Money for the ABC to spruik propaganda in all media at not just
  every opportunity, but to generate opportunities.
* Handouts to SBS to fragment Australian culture

Relevant to aus.cars:
* Funding Police so that they can buy stupid machines to "police"
  speed limits to within 1 km/h where speed limits are sometimes
  well below the 50th percentile.
 
<http://contrary2belief.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/wa-police-again-show-that-speed-limits-are-too-low/

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While Antarctica gets colder.
<http://notrickszone.com/2011/12/04/antarctic-neumayer-iii-deputy-director-veteran-polar-scientist-we-have-a-light-cooling-trend/

Who are you going to believe? The guy who spent decades researching
polar climate, or some has-been "journalist" whose claim to fame is
decades of molesting wildlife on TV?

You do realize that the BBC got not only their scripts from WWF and
Greenpeace via UEA CRU; but also a huge part of their funding, don't
you? Effectively acting as a publically-subsidises propaganda arm of
those organizations. That to fuel the alarmism to rake in the
donations so that their executives can live the high life.

Or haven't you read the emails and the "BBC-gateau" reports?

Other CAGW activists are of the same ilk.
<http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/30/the-worst-kind-of-ugly-propaganda-david-suzuki-targets-kids-at-christmas-in-the-name-of-climate-chnage/
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ /  ASCII ribbon campaign | For every complex problem there is an
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Re: OT GW
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 11:12:26 +1100, Trevor Wilson

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Most medical care in Australia is not free.

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No such freedom, what a nonsense.

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No such freedom, what a nonsense.

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fee for service.

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fee for service

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fee for service

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It is nonsensical to claim that all of that is due to taxation.

You are being rather irrational.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
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Re: OT GW

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Bullshit. for many items, there was absoltely no effect as GST just
replaced the impact of sales tax.

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You voted, so you consented. Seriously, when did they ammend the
constitution so you had any say. This is australia mate, not the USofA.

Re: OT GW
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It wouldnt have happened unless it generated more tax
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I did not vote for it and did not consent.

Re: OT GW
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 06:56:16 +1100, Trevor Wilson

(snip)

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Another figure pulled straight out of your arse, Trev?  Or more of
your blind faith in the utterances of the pro-carbon-tax groupies?

Accept or deny these simple facts:

1.  Electricity generators (the organisations, not the hardware) will
NOT materially change their existing plant in the face of the tax.
They will simple pass on the cost to their customers.

2.  They (Verve in the case of W.A.) have estimated a minimum 8%
increase based on the *startup* tax rate.  (And note that the tax will
increase yearly after its introduction.)

3.  The S.A. government recently provided a figure of ~$2000 as the
average household annual electricity bill.  (Mine here in Perth is
somewhat higher).

4.  8% of $2000 p.a. is $160 p.a. - more than TEN TIMES your fanciful
30c/week.

 So you think the generators will pass on less than 10% of their tax
bill?  You ARE living in a dream world.

Re: OT GW

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Was that all Carbon Tax, or did it include any infrastructure costs?

Re: OT GW
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 13:13:02 +1100, terryc

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Infrastructure cost?  It (2) is the straight cost of what the carbon
tax does to their balance sheet at $23/tonne.

(3) is the current (pre-CT) figure.

Re: OT GW
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I wonder why your preoccupation with the aforementioned? You seem to
think that everybody that is opposed watches or listens to them.
I never listen to Alan Jones (don't like him)don't listen to the other
two either, You would be better sticking to your take on the facts,
continually harping on localized personages does not help your argument,
especially with people who have never heard of them.
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Re: OT GW
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Oh yeah ... the fossil fuel funding... which happens to be about
20:1 in favour of the CAGW alarmist organizations.

It's about money for research. Money to maintain power.
No science.

You don't understand the concept of a rational argument.
Which is why you're such an excellent example of how NOT to argue
when trying to make a point.

SO, keep doing it.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ /  ASCII ribbon campaign | For every complex problem there is an
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Re: OT GW


"Bernd Felsche"  wrote in message

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Oh yeah ... the fossil fuel funding... which happens to be about
20:1 in favour of the CAGW alarmist organizations.

It's about money for research. Money to maintain power.
No science.

You don't understand the concept of a rational argument.
Which is why you're such an excellent example of how NOT to argue
when trying to make a point.

SO, keep doing it.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ /  ASCII ribbon campaign | For every complex problem there is an
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: OT GW
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Thats right.  Got it in one.


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Re: OT GW
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Oh dear, another one.



Re: OT GW

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Another one indeed.

Here's something to ponder Clocky. There is no question that the planet
is changing, and anyone who suggests that it isn't is away with the
fairies. However, the point of contention is whether that change is a
mane made one or a result of the planet's normal evolutionary process.

A portion of the scientific community thinks that man has something to
do with it, but they can't conclusively prove it. They have their
theories of course, but none of us (including the scientists themselves)
will ever live long enough to know if their guesses are right or wrong.

The funny part in all of that (for me at least) as that you're happy to
go along with them but probably don't believe in the existence of "God"
despite the amount of faith required to believe in either being about
the same :)



--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT GW
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**Their "guesses" (as you quaintly put it) are based on very extensive
research. Their "guesses" are now put at around 95% certainty.

Let's say one of your family members gives you their car to look at. You
hear a 'clunk' 'clunk' noise when turning corners under load. You say
that there is a 95% probability that the CVs are shot. You cannot be
100% certain without stripping the front end down and looking at them.
Do you call your educated assumption a "guess"? What do you tell your
relative, when they state that you are a crackpot and should be
completely ignored, because you cannot provide a 100% ironclad guarantee
that your claim is correct?

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**I saw the smiley, but it doesn't count. There is zero evidence to
support the notion of a God. There is considerable scientific data to
support the notion of AGW.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au


Re: OT GW

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By whom? Themselves? :)

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That's not a very accurate analogy in my opinion Trevor, because unlike
the pro climate change argument it's something that could easily be
proved one way or the other.

However, to answer your question I'd tell them that that was my opinion
and they could do with that as they pleased.

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Actually I don't think that's true.

There'd be *far* more people in this world who believed in God than
those who believe in man made climate change, and those on either side
would argue that there's plenty of evidence to support their case.

Whether there actually was or not would be completely irrelevant though :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT GW

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I would be a lot happier if that wasn't almost all they had been looking
for in a lot of research in he last few decades.

Makes them as credible as looking for secret writing in the bible, war
and peace, etc, etc, etc

Re: OT GW

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Agreed.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT GW

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A massive portion of scientists with massive amounts of evidence pointing to
it.

They have their
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Theories are not guesses.

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The evidence is not in your favour, flat-earther.



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