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Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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quite a show stopper to me....

Doesnt have to be anything like that much of a drop.



Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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quite a show stopper to me....
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You're aware of power diodes that have much less than .6V
voltage drop eh Rod? Name the model #

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--
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Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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quite a show stopper to me....

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Didnt say anything about power diodes.

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Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze



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seems quite a show stopper to me....
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Then what are you talking about?

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be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
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Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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1.5V seems quite a show stopper to me....
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eh Rod?
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MOSFETS

Meindert



Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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I was thinking along similar lines albeit BJTs rather than MOSFETs
- it is not for nothing than MOSFETs are often drawn with a parasitic
reverse biased diode.

I've actually done this kind of thing using BJTs in the past although
the intent there was to reduce heat dissipation rather than voltage
drop although that pretty much means the same thing at the end of
the day. The drop is reduced to two collector-emitter losses.

You do need to watch the voltage though since my experience is that
BJTs can breakdown far faster than you might expect when reverse
biased.  However that is unlikely to be a problem for battery
powered equipment particularly when you are having one circuit per
cell as here.

Actually, thinking about that I'll have to go through it and see
if the system I used would actually work in that arrangement.  It's
just possible the other cells could interfere with the biasing and
I don't have a schematic in front of me to consider that possibility.

--
Andrew Smallshaw
snipped-for-privacy@sdf.lonestar.org

Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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seems quite a show stopper to me....
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  You didn't need to woddles , already done and dusted now what's the
number of the semi conductor that's practical AND supports your failed
argument
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Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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quite a show stopper to me....
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So you are going to wave that magic "wand "of yours woddles changing the
laws of physics ?
  name the device you are thinking of by number to prove your claim thanks

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Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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Yes, even when it's designed right in from the start.  Do you want
to change the habit of a lifetime and start _justifying_ your
pronouncements instead of simply endlessly repeating them as if
that alone is enough to make them true?

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Yes, even when it's designed into the device right at the start.
Not that it really matters, this kind of circuitry is basically
invisible to the rest of the system aside from any voltage drop.
You can put it in at the start or before laying out the final
production board - it doesn't make that much difference

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Yes, even when it's designed into the device right at the start.

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Because a cost/benefit analysis (however informal) shows that LED
is worth including.  It's a standard design trade off, cost vs.
functionality.  For some devices, those indicator LEDs are the
_only_ sign of life that is not dependent on connected equipment.

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It was more of a proof than simply spouting "not when it's designed
in right at the start" in parrot-like fashion.  The way I'd do this
would use four transistors and four resistors, plus a bit of board
space, extra soldering, possibly extra drilling, more faults etc.
I don't see it costing much less than about 8p even with a reasonable
production run.  For some sectors that is unacceptable even on
equipment going for three figures.  If the device is supposed to
sell for a fiver it is unacceptable anywhere.

--
Andrew Smallshaw
snipped-for-privacy@sdf.lonestar.org

Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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Wrong, as always. It doesnt cost enough to matter
when the extra is included in the special purpose ic.

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You're so stupid that it isnt worth the trouble.

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Wrong, as always. It doesnt cost enough to matter
when the extra is included in the special purpose ic.

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It happens to be what is being discussed.

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It makes a considerable difference when its all in a special purpose ic.

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Wrong, as always. It doesnt cost enough to matter
when the extra is included in the special purpose ic.

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including.

Just as true of allowing the batterys to go in any way the user likes.

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So his original claim is just plain wrong, as I said.

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And they are included anyway even when they arent.

So much for his stupid claim.

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Corse you never ever do anything like that yourself, eh ?

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Anyone with even half a clue would include whats needed in the special purpose
ic.

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production run.

And it wouldnt cost anything like that when its included in the special purpose
ic.

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figures.
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Have fun explaining how the absolute vast bulk of those have a led or lcd.



Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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So, the 99.9+% of designs (including, for example, most computer
motherboards) that use no custom ASICs are a complete irrelevence,
are they?

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Adding _power_ transistors to your typical ASIC will certianly not
be free.  I suspect you would be looking long and hard for a foundry
to even entertain the idea.  It is competely impossible with the
sea of gates ASICs for a start.

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It was your assertion that when it is designed in is somehow pivotal
to how much it costs.  If you had continued to read the very
sentence you truncated you would have seen that _that_ makes no
real difference.

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The user is accustomed to ensuring battery polarities are correct.
How many devices out there have this kind of any-way-will-do
circuitry?  If there was a massive demand for it it would have been
addressed long ago.

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No, of course it wouldn't cost anything like that.  Instead it
would probably be at least a capital cost of 100,000 for the ASIC
and another 1 per unit to accommodate those on chip power transistors.

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I already have.  You chose to invent a new economic reality instead
of reading it.  Now I remember why you were in my killfile.

--
Andrew Smallshaw
snipped-for-privacy@sdf.lonestar.org

Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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Those use ASICs designed for motherboards, stupid.

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They certainly are to the BATTERY POWERED devices being discussed.

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No one said a word about free except you.

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Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that the BATTERY
POWERED devices actually being discussed dont actually use those much.

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much it costs.

Everyone can see for themselves that I said nothing like that.

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I did that, and replied to that bit as well.

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Wrong, as always. It doesnt cost enough to matter
when the extra is included in the special purpose ic.

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including.

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And that patent was about allowing the user to ignore that
and allows for little kids not needing to be taught that etc.

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Irrelevant to the obvious advantage with that approach.

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The same stupid claim could have been made about all
sorts of things that have only recently become common.

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production run.

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purpose ic.

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Not when the device needs that already, fool.

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Not when the device has some already, fool.

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Like hell you have.

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Everyone can see you are lying, as always.

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Put me back, then we wont have to see any more of your pathetic excuse for
mindless bullshit.



Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze



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Is that the AC to DC voltage drop?
One would think that with no switching going DC to DC
that it would not be that bad.
Also do you need to worry about bleed when the device is off?

Brett

Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze



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 As already mentioned, the voltage drop across the diodes will cause
some fairly significant trouble.  With one bridge rectifier, you'll
typically lose 1.4v, and when you're talking 3v native at the battery
source, that's just too much.
 You can use schottky diodes, but they cost more, and there's better
ways of doing it in any case.

 It's actually a big of a challenge to provide polarity protection AND
not have the circuitry be a power hog in the process, AND still be cheap
enough that the project manager isn't going to have kittens.

 InstaLoad does all of that and more, providing you use a battery of the
correct specific dimensions of course.
 If not, things get really bad. (this was outlined in another cross thread).

Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 13:46:35 +1000, son of a bitch

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Not at all.

The rectifier trick will only work if you insert ALL the cells the
SAME way. If you insert half the cells one way and the other half the
other way, you will get a 0V battery.

You could, of course, add a rectifier for each cell. You'd have to
figure out a way to deal with the voltage drop, though. 1.4V drop for
each 1.5V cell is not exactly practical.
--
RoRo

Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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Just how many children do you know with preying fingers ?

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Likely better than your proof reading.



Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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G'day Rod. do you need a couple of whooooooshers to use?

I'm praying some of those prying fingers aren't preying on the unfortunate.

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Cheers
Oldus Fartus

Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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Microsoft is even bothering with a
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Fraid not, Joyce.

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Down, fart.



Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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why Microsoft is even bothering with a
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How the fuck are you Rod, long time no speak.

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Cheers
Oldus Fartus

Re: New Microsoft Tech Makes Battery Changes a Breeze


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Pretty good, apart from it being winter, my least favorite season.



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