**Can be. Unfortunately, the evidence is clear. The future effects are not so clear. It would seem prudent to act early, before any possible thermal runaway effects take hold. No?
**As the data is accumulated, it is becoming clear that the upper limits of the IPCC reports are appearing conservative.
**Nor do I. However, this is the only planet we have. We should look after it. We should act conservatively to the only (known) home we have in this universe.
**Strawman noted.
Trevor, I long ago dismissed most of what you say as bullshit, so Im not particularly worried.
here is a quick google search, (for what its worth) I admit I was wrong, its 30,000 scientists, not 20,000.
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It is supposed to be a free and a capitalist country. If people have the ability to earn income - through their own hard work, risk, or clever investment its their right to spend their own money as they personally see fit.
Its NOT the right of a government in a free society to just take large chunks of people's money and spend it as the government sees fit. This is the sort of society like the USSR, NK etc, its NOT what we want or need here. Socialism does not work in the long term, and never has. Governments are typcally the most wasteful and inefficient institutions we have ever been cursed with, and the last thing we need is to be feeding them more.
These things like big homes, 4WD's etc are soon going to be things of the past, now that the credit bubble is collapsing, unemployment is going through the roof, and ridiculous policies / labor laws etc chase investment and jobs out of here and to countries that want business, investment and a future. I would suggest you also look at the large number of smaller, modern cars that have been bought in recent years also. In many cases these have replaced older inefficient clunkers and probably saved more than the 4wds have consumed. I wouldn't be surprised if there were far more small and efficient cars like Corolla, Lancer, Astra etc sold than 4Wds.
As for plasmas and big cars, 4WD I don't own any of these things, and have no desire for them. electricity and fuel cost enough as it is, that I wouldn't want a 4WD, or a plasma as the cost of running them is simply too much for me over the long term. However, I value and defend my right and everyone else's right and free choice to buy and use these things, and to enjoy them, if honest work and saving has been done to buy them, and have the need or desire to own them.
It's also your right to spend YOUR money on things like solar panels, energy efficient lighting, electric vehicles, just (like the guy in silicon chip this month). If you seriously believe that carbon is a problem, then take YOUR money, and do the same, and help others who don't have the skills to do the same, IF they WANT to do it.
To limit future carbon emissions, voluntary sterilisation should also be on this list for the environmentally responsible.
Dont dare force other people to waste their money when they have other priorities or desires in their life.
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And spent even more in his first few months in office. Very likely will crash the dollar and the entire country.
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Your also not qualified to speak on AGW, just like the rest of us.
**Really? What would they be? Don't forget to provide your evidence to support your claim.
Trevor, I long ago dismissed most of what you say as bullshit, so Im not particularly worried.
**Of cpurse. Scientific illiterates like you, hate the truth.
here is a quick google search, (for what its worth) I admit I was wrong, its 30,000 scientists, not 20,000.
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**Nothing there. All I see is someone THREATENING to sue Gore. I do not see
30,000 scientists actually suing Gore. Claim dismissed.
It is supposed to be a free and a capitalist country.
**It is. However, like every nation on Earth, it is a (partly) Socialist system. Taxpayers fund (amongst other things):
Defence.
Garbage collection.
Infrastructure.
Police.
The courts system.
The medical system.
The public transport system.
Those who cannot support themselves.
Taxes pay for this stuff and more.
If people have the ability to earn income - through their own hard work, risk, or clever investment its their right to spend their own money as they personally see fit.
**After they pay tax, yes.
Its NOT the right of a government in a free society to just take large chunks of people's money and spend it as the government sees fit.
**Yes, it is. The government sets the rate of taxation. You don't get a choice in the matter. Short of using your Democratic voting rights, of course.
This is the sort of society like the USSR, NK etc, its NOT what we want or need here. Socialism does not work in the long term, and never has.
**Your inability to understand the fine nuances of realpolitik is duly noted. ALL nations are Socialist to varying degrees. Every single one. Well, except, perhaps, Somalia. Would you prefer that Australia be more like Somalia?
Governments are typcally the most wasteful and inefficient institutions we have ever been cursed with, and the last thing we need is to be feeding them more.
**Utter, banal bullshit. Governments CAN be wasteful. As can large corporations. OTOH, since governments are not profit-driven, they can provide certain services at far lower cost than corporations. The health system, for instance, here in Australia, has some serious benefits to Australians, as regards costs and quality of service, compared to the US.
These things like big homes, 4WD's etc are soon going to be things of the past, now that the credit bubble is collapsing, unemployment is going through the roof, and ridiculous policies / labor laws etc chase investment and jobs out of here and to countries that want business, investment and a future. I would suggest you also look at the large number of smaller, modern cars that have been bought in recent years also. In many cases these have replaced older inefficient clunkers and probably saved more than the 4wds have consumed. I wouldn't be surprised if there were far more small and efficient cars like Corolla, Lancer, Astra etc sold than 4Wds.
As for plasmas and big cars, 4WD I don't own any of these things, and have no desire for them. electricity and fuel cost enough as it is, that I wouldn't want a 4WD, or a plasma as the cost of running them is simply too much for me over the long term. However, I value and defend my right and everyone else's right and free choice to buy and use these things, and to enjoy them, if honest work and saving has been done to buy them, and have the need or desire to own them.
**No argument from me, as long as the real costs to the community (and the planet) are reflected in their purchase price.
It's also your right to spend YOUR money on things like solar panels, energy efficient lighting, electric vehicles, just (like the guy in silicon chip this month). If you seriously believe that carbon is a problem, then take YOUR money, and do the same, and help others who don't have the skills to do the same, IF they WANT to do it.
To limit future carbon emissions, voluntary sterilisation should also be on this list for the environmentally responsible.
**It already is.
Dont dare force other people to waste their money when they have other priorities or desires in their life.
**I'm not. I'm simply stating that there are methods that governments will need to use to cause people to emit less CO2.
And spent even more in his first few months in office.
**Wrong. Bush racked up a debt exceeding 10 Billion US Dollars. Obama has not even come close to this figure. Your nonsenical claim is duly noted. Do you have any grip on reality?
Very likely will crash the dollar and the entire country.
**Maybe. It's not that simple. China now has so much invested in the US economy, that it cannot afford to see the US Dollar plunge. Nor can most other economies. Nonetheless, we'll see. We live in interesting times (to paraphrase on old Chinese proverb).
Your also not qualified to speak on AGW, just like the rest of us.
**Unlike you, I've read widely on the issue. I certainly understand considerably more than you do.
That's hard to say. In the seventies Scientific American ran an article stating the earth was moving towards another ice age (albeit very slowly of course), which is a natural cycle independant of human interference. The current global warming is a natural consequence of overpopulation, which probably goes too far in the other direction. No-one wants to tackle the population problem however, so the rest is just empty rhetoric, vested interests and loonies. Hard to say whether humans will adapt better to global warming or global cooling however, and how many of the 7+ billion people the earth can really support in either case.
*IF* we could actually change anything sufficiently to have any noticeable benefit. No plans whatsoever to do that at the moment.
Why? It is unimaginable that we are the only planet in the universe with life forms of any kind, just because you don't know of any others. We may well do the rest of the universe a favour and save many other planets by our becoming extinct.
**Sciam probably ran an article on 'Cold Fusion' too. Sciam does run articles of a highly speculative nature from time to time. That does not suggest that the majority of scientists feel there is (or was) any credence to the issue. Personally, I am doubtful of your claim, but I am certainly prepared to concede that Sciam did run such an article, after you provide some proof. In the meantime, I suggest you read this:
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And this:
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It puts paid to the myth that the scientific community gave any real credence to the notion of global cooling. It was mostly in the realm of popular press.
It is unimaginable that we are the only planet in the universe with
**That would be the pessimistic view. It is possible that humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Even if we are not, it is possible that we may have something of worth to offer the universe.
you do realise that "global warming" does not mean that temperatures every where are going to rise, but that the "weather" will have more energy driving it with more extreme (both ends) weather events?
That depends on the life style you want them to have.
What it comes down to with regard to pollution or global warming is that it ain't what you do, it's the scale on which you do it. Unfortunately, with the exponential growth of population, the effect on the planet goes up similarly.
no it isn't Every day I come across information that suggest flaws have been found in certain core data sets on which these projections have been made.
there is also the issue that some data sets are really local weather data and not global climate data.
the fact that we do not really know enough about the factors influencing Australian weather casts doubt on whether we really under global weather and climate.
--
Once again, our prime minister Kevin Rudd brings stability to the nation
by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
and another for the poor. After a personal visit;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/27/2553855.htm
Catalyst last night had a program which showed that climate scientists are only now thinking that the Indian Ocean may be responsible for the drought in SE Australia.
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If it's taken local climate scientists this long for them to realise this, then what else are the IPCC scientists missing regarding the much larger problem of global weather?
Of course we should look after it, but to indicate that it's the only home we have ignores the potential of 7 other planets (sorry Pluto), moons, and uncounted number of asteroids, comets and assorted detritus.
And share the love our Philthy does. Here and elsewhere on UseNet on a fairly regular basis. Just read a few of his recent posts here. Can't you "feel" the love he shares with us all?
Yep, all this moaning about save the planet is a joke. Rats, cockroaches and ants have nothing to worry about.
Anyway, there's only one strategy that's likely to have any significant effect, and only then if it's applied suitably - ie very - aggressively, and that's (wait for it) population reduction. It looks highly likely that that will be looked after for us by mother nature. No need for us to do anything.
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