Is the "Skills Shortage" real ?

I've found that a lot of good electroncis guys are moving out of electronics design because there is a "jobs shortage"!

The media will crap on about anything and run with it, that's what they do.

Dave :)

"Sparky"

** There is no "skills shortage " in electronic design in Australia.

Cos there is SFA design being done here.

** For "skills " read "specific, commercially valuable skills".

Such skills usually cannot be obtained by someone living in Australia since they relate to hands on experience with specific technology that we simply do not have here.

** That too.

WA has imported Philippino motor mechanics that work cheaply and in poor conditions.

........... Phil

The companies who can't hire fitter and turners for any money, are the same companies who lobby the government to "Do something about it". These companies haven't hired apprentices for years and import Chinese workers in some cases.

"Sparky" wrote in news:1124679408.2b71f5129753b24d9ac397da5f281597@teranews:

I don't see much of a skills shortage in electronics/firmware. You have to pay to get good ones, but wasn't that always the case? With a declining manufacturing economy and also less electronics graduates/trainees there may well be apparent shortages and gluts from time to time, but it is a declining total too.

I wonder if companies who are looking for people and can't get ones to fit in with their budgets, just decide to do without engineers and techs and try to find other solutions such as design contactors, off the shelf systems etc?

Don't forget the autmatic pass , after five or seven years if a student has completed 75% of the course.

Happened to one guy I went through tafe with.

Don't know if it still works like that.

At least tafe students get taught soldering, not all uni students (Elect , cse ,tele etc) do.

Alex

Ahh, try to get an apprentice. No kid wants to work for apprentice wages these days, and if they do, they dont want to do the shit work we all went through as apprentices.

The last company I worked for went through about 4 apprentices before hiring an unskilled labourer and training him up. At leat the labourer was willing to learn.

A guy I know was given weeding work as an apprentice in a shipyard in the 1970's.

When the apprenticeship board found out what he'd been doing for 18 months they came very close to banning that shipyard from ever having apprentices ever again. After that, the apprentice was given extra training to make up for the "Shit work".

Half the uni grads I've interviewed can't even use an analog meter or cro, let alone solder.

*sigh* The likelyhood of being able to do anything useful vs educational qualifications appears to approximate that of an exponential decay response :->

Dave :)

Funny. When I went to the apprenticeship board with a similar claim, the stuck up for the company. I guess spending the first 2 years of you apprenticship cleaning second hand cables and cleaning circuit boards is training is it? Dont assume you know everything, when I trained apprentices I made sure they learned. However, if I have to get into a shit pit at a chicken farm to fix a PLC, then I expect them to do it too. These days they wont do that.

My old man was able to transfer his mechanics apprenticeship in WW2 after two years of cleaning coal gas converters on the back of cars and always getting the job of adjusting brake shoes on the council shitcarts. Once or twice is ok but two years is enough.

I have had jobs where I have had to climb inside sewerage pumps to steam clean them before making a repair: I only jacked up as my boss wanted me to do this without hep A and B shots like the council workers had. Don't assume you know everything.

You made the first assumption!

Shall we turn this into a "who has done the worst job" competition!?!?

I have done the sewerage plant jobs too, but I did them on secondary treatment only plants in remote areas, that got nasty at times. Mind you, thats what you get when you decide to become an instrument fitter. I have a couple of plumber mates who think it is funny when they bust a shit pipe and get covered in crap and tampons...Sigh, i guess the work could be worse.

Out of all the worst jobs i have done I would have to rate doing work at a Geletin factory in the Raw beef processing end the worst. That plase stunk like you wouldn't beleive. Like you with the hep shots, I kicked up a stink because I had no Q-Fever vaccinations.

Pig feed lots are bad too, but thats another story.

Its all relative I guess. I am just glad I am out of the trade game now.

I am surprised to hear that from you.

Pot calling the kettle black?

Well, i never had to provide them with sexual gratification.

So you are saying that the apprentice should only be trained to do the good clean work and the tradesman should only do the crap work?

Which one was that?: that apprentice board inspectors take exception to to non stop shit jobs?.

I once was working about halfway between Cloncurry and Mt Isa and was watching a plumber in a trench laying sewage pipe, when some idiot took a dump and flushed it: the plumber did an army roll out of the way and leapt out of the trench faster than any middle aged tradesman I've ever seen just as the turds shot out of the open end of the pipe. Everyone was told beforehand to use the bush instead but there's always an some clown who thinks they are an exception.

"Mark Harriss"

** ROTFL .......

I have heard plumbers being referred to as " turd burglars " - but never " turd dodgers " before !!!

.......... Phil

There are "shortages" in some areas. Now, your and my definition of a shortage is probably very different to these "shortages". We probably belong to the old school definition of a shortage.

When you have a boom in construction, etc, there is always an immediate shortage. Coupled with the modern method of staffing is to only have permanent staff for the on-going load and recruit temporary staff for the "boom" time.

And when a company can not recruit that staff, when they want them AND at the $$$ the company is prepared to pay (so they make humungous profits), then there is obviously a shortage.

ROFL yet?

And of course, the company has to bleat on to all and sundry about it and claim there is a "skills shortage", which encourages the government to a) force diabled, etc, etc to apply for these jobs (no skills, no training) b) allowed "skilled immigration".

Nope, definitely not in engineering/manufacturing. There are always adds for cnc trademan in the local paper, but I do not consider there to be a real shortage as whenever you ask the factory/company owners what they are paying for the position "award wages" ROFL.

So, they expect some one to do four years of evening TAFE to get a fitting and machining qualification, then one or two years (?) of cnc training and then still not be acceptable because his experience isn't on their brand of machinery.

In comparison, this guy can spend a few hundred $$ and a few days at fork lift training school and pull from $27/hour loading and unload containers. No contest. And those figures are after the agency takes it's cut (~50%).

Yep.

IT wages have arsed out over the last decade.

We have become so efficent at stuff, that demand for labour/employees has fallen dramatically. So much so, that it isn't worth the effort to do any involved personal education/training because you are highly unlikely to every get your costs back.

Well, would you waste your time working for shit money, when you can get more money easier doing something cleaner.

I think a major problem is that most old farts thing in terms of the old times where having a trade gave you skills for life, ...

But young people have had nine years of computing by the time they have done their HSC[1] and that tells them that everything is changing so fast, that spending four years learning a trade is just a waste.

[1] I know someone is going to say apprentices, etc don't do HSC, but that is little Johnny's plant to fix the skills shortage; leave high school with HSC and a pile of certificates.

My local garage tells the same story about apprentices, but then they dropped the clanger "Next time we are going to ask some questions before they start and make them do a trial period". LOL.

>

Umm, i think you need to rethink that. I'd tell them not to do it either if there was any likely danger to their health. One thing I have learnt is that there are very few companies/bosses that really look after you. they will put you in danger so they can make their money, then flip you off if you are injured in any way.

Thats the problem I used to face. I agree with you 100%.

Deleted irrelevent drivel. TRy to answer my question Phil:

So you are saying that the apprentice should only be trained to do the good clean work and the tradesman should only do the crap work?