If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it? - Page 2

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Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?

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Logging is one thing - it's the data stream that I wonder about. Capture
that and I'm rooted.

So what you are saying is that with a secure PC as I described it should be
safe if I screw the F/W down tight and watch it.

And also assuming the AP is not set up as a honeypot to do data capture.

Correct ?

Colin



Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?

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I didnt say it very clearly, I meant that you need to be careful
about what you do over the wireless link, like encrypting email
that you care about etc, in case its being captured etc. Obviously
you may not give a damn about email that is discussing someone
having taken the cat to the vet etc, but other stuff may matter more.

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No, I was clumsily saying that it wouldnt be a great idea
to be doing online purchases etc on a 'borrowed' wireless
network. Stuff like share trading in spades.

There's got to be some who deliberately leave their wireless
network open to see what suckers they can catch.



Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?


Thanks Rod, got it.

Colin



Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?

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This might interest you.

http://airsnort.shmoo.com /




Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?



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As an ISP you should know this stuff already.

There are simple ways to trace a radio signal.  And simple ways to prove
which computer connected to another via any network type.

But of course you already knew this because you are an ISP ... bwhahahaha



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Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?



 
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Haha.. translation: That law doesnt exsist... except in nt now lets
fight about wether or not NT is a real state.

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Oh a different  penalty now, thats pretty clever for a law you claimed
doesnt even exsist...

Your in idiot rod, you say the law doesnt exsist, yet it clearly does
And I happen to know the trespass act is in force in all states.
How do i know? I'm a bouncer, its my job to enforce this law.
You can pull links to NT law out of your ass all week for all i care,
try looking up civil laws, and national laws.. as for me? I'm over it.


Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?


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Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag even
if its pathetic excuse for a 'life' depended on it.

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Have a look at what the T in NT stands for, fuckwit child.

AND it aint where the OP is anyway, you silly little pig ignorant fuckwit child.

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I clearly said it doesnt exist IN ANY STATE, you lying fuckwit child.

It doesnt, it only exists in the Northern TERRITORY, you silly little
lying fuckwit child. AND even the sole example of a trepass act that
does exist in the northern TERRITORY doesnt say anything like
you pig ignorantly claimed, you silly little lying fuckwit child.

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You're a liar, fuckwit child, I actually said that
THERE IS NO TRESPASS ACT IN ANY STATE.

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No such ACT in any state, you silly little pig ignorant fuckwit child.

AND you are just plain wrong about the detail of the CRIME of
trespass in every single state, you silly little pig ignorant fuckwit child.

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Figures. So stupid that that's all you qualify for.

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Lying, as always. No bouncer gets to enforce any
law, you silly little pig ignorant posturing fuckwit child.

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Not one of which actually says anything like
you pig ignorantly claimed about trespass.

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SURE you are, child.



Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?


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Your an idiot, go do your security course again (besides "bouncers" really
shouldn't be classed as security)..

In NSW it's the "Inclosed Lands Protection Act", which states:

  (1) Any person who, without lawful excuse (proof of which lies on the
person), enters into inclosed lands without the consent of the owner,
occupier or person apparently in charge of those lands, or who remains on
those lands after being requested by the owner, occupier or person
apparently in charge of those lands to leave those lands, is liable to a
penalty not exceeding:
    (a) 10 penalty units in the case of prescribed premises, or
    (b) 5 penalty units in any other case.
So, stuffing up your earlier post which said:

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You are WRONG (in NSW anyway, not going to start looking at laws in other
states/territories).

And, there is NO "Tresspass Act" in Commonwealth law, so your "knowledge" is
WRONG!  I suggest you go back and redo any security course you think you
did.. If you were in NSW you should've failed 'cause you need to know the
Inclosed Lands Protection Act by name and what it means...

And as for knowing for sure, considering I have arrested more than one
person under this Act, and the Police have had a successful prosecution, I'm
fairly confident that I know what this Act meant..  How about you?

Oh, and please tell us where you work as a "bouncer" 'cause I for one would
like to avoid that place if this is the level of knowledge the security
staff have on the laws!






Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?


geez, calm down buddy.

Clearly the law on this is a little loose.  It says the trespasser can prove
it had an excuse for being in there without consent.  If the doors are open,
then you would have a good case for saying that there is implied consent for
you to be on the property.   Like any shop or complex.   If it is a house,
then you would just say you were trying to get hold of the occupier to talk
to them.  Clearly, unless they can show you had malicious or dubious
intent, you will be fine.

As for the analogy to the wireless network, if a network springs up on a
wifi list, the unsophisticated user would not know whether it is public or
private network.  No different to a website owner saying its site is off
limits and not having any access control.  A bit like having a shop with
open doors, and then the owner saying, "I never gave you consent to enter."

The idea that access a network counts as "trespass" has not been accepted by
the law.  Statutes are used to protect networks.




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Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?


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Unfortunately this is one area of law where the onus is on the "offender" to
prove there was no malicious intent.  In other words, you are guilty until
you prove yourself innocent.  That defence has been tried and failed - a B&E
on a commercial premises, person found inside (no witnesses to say that
person actually committed the B&E), person claimed they had been walking
past, saw the broken window, and entered to check if anyone was inside.  The
defense failed as they were still trespassing and that was not deemed a
lawful excuse....

Read the actual Act - with trespass the offender must prove lawful intent,
not the owner prove malicious intent.  This is one reason why any sensible
security officer LOVES the Inclosed Lands/Tresspass Acts, because it is the
only instance where they actually have some powers, and generally more than
Police as they are acting as the "person apparently in charge" with the
consent of the owner/occupier, whereas without a warrant the Police must be
invited onto the premises and can always be asked to leave...

Bottom line - if you are on private property you can be charged and
convicted unless you can convince a Magistrate that you are indeed innocent.
Simply walking in through an open/unlocked door is not going to be good
enough - if you thought something was wrong you should've called the Police
not walked in on your own.




Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?



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Yeah, commerical premises, why would anyone go inside?

Walking in into an open shop or a house saying "Anyone home" is a different
story.


The important question is what tapping into a wifi network is analagous to.
The answer is that it is not analgous to any of them, because the network
owner is theoretically trespassing by broadcasting its signal.  Hence
specific statutes such as Telecommunications and Broadcating to deal with
these issues.





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Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?




I'd drop that email addy. Could result in QRM



Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?


DalienX committed to the eternal aether...:

snip url that dun work

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On this occasion, no.

Trespass is a tort (like negligence & contract), law created in the courts
by precedent. There is no state or federal legislation (law created by
parliament).

Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?



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I dont care who made it, the point is its there.
Which rod tried to deny.

Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?


DalienX committed to the eternal aether...:

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He's arguing that there's no "act" and he's correct. You said "read the
trespass act", and of course there isn't one, just a heap of case law.

Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?


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He's just another moron that slept through his security course and got past
simply because he paid his fee.  Knowing about the various "incosed lands"
acts and tresspass is basic in every security course and as he claims to be
a "bouncer" he would've had to do such a course.....



Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?


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Pity there is no TRESPASS ACT as you pig ignorantly
claimed except in the NT and even that one says nothing
like what you pig ignorantly claimed it said anyway.

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Lying, as always. I said that there is no trespass act in ANY STATE, liar.



Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?


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Don't forget that a WiFi signal can be tracked just like any other radio
signal.  At those frequencies it wouldn't be very hard to track the signal
to the offenders location.




Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?





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I said that already!  but no one seems to be paying attention!

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Re: If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap in and use it?


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found.
signal
Maybe no-one's thought of it, but it would be really easy to track down the
signal from an interloper.....

Ken
(sorry, just stirring!  :-)



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