how much standby power do ALL your appliances use?

I want the SERVICE thanks. Just not the £15 electricity bill.

It's just occurred to me that Australians must be a bit like Americans in their attitude to energy wastefulness.

Graham

the

expert

consumer who

4 WHY DON'T YOU-YES BUT Thesis. "Why Don't You?Yes But" occupies a special place in game analysis, because it was the original stimulus for the concept of games.

It was the first game to be dissected out of its social context, and since it is the oldest subject of game analysis, it is one of the best understood.

It is also the game most commonly played at parties and groups of all kinds, including psychotherapy groups.

The following example will serve to illustrate its main characteristics:

White: "My husband always insists on doing our own repairs, and he never builds anything right."

Black: "Why doesn't he take a course in carpentry?"

White: "Yes, but he doesn't have time."

Blue: "Why don't you buy him some good tools'?"

White: "Yes, but he doesn't know how to use them."

Red: "Why don't you have your building done by a carpenter?"

White: "Yes, but that would cost too much."

Brown: "Why don't you just accept what he does the way he does it}"

White: "Yes, but the whole thing might fall down."

Such an exchange is typically followed by a silence. It is eventually broken by Green, who may say something like, "That's men for you, always trying to show how efficient they are."

YDYB can be played by any number.

The agent presents a problem. The others start to present solutions, each beginning with "Why don't you . . . ?" To each of these White objects with a "Yes, but. ..."

A good player can stand off the others indefinitely until they all give up, whereupon White wins.

In many situations she might have to handle a dozen or more solutions to engineer the crestfallen silence which signifies her victory, and which leaves the field open for the next game in the above paradigm, Green switching into "PI A," Delinquent Husband Type.

Since the solutions are, with rare exceptions, rejected, it is apparent that this game must serve some ulterior purpose.

YDYB is not played for its ostensible purpose (an Adult quest for information or solutions), but to reassure and gratify the Child.

Starts at page 49:

591 kb.

You'd be in breach for adding a remote control and/or auto mains switch?

Dave.

What is wrong with the remote control or auto power switch idea? One or both products are designed to solve problems exactly like that.

Turn your TV off, the STB switches off. Turn your TV on, STB switches on - easy. Or do it from your armchair with a remote control.

Dave.

How difficult would it be to assemble something like this?

+--------+ 2-conductor cord +--------+ power cord | switch +----------------------+ outlet +----------------

I don't think he really wants a solution to the problem. If he did, he would have solved it ages ago. He just wants to bitch about a perceived "wrong", and then swear at people that don't immediately agree with his opinion exactly.

It HAS a remote control that puts it into the same non-power-saving standy mode as the button on the front.

Graham

Just how many MORE remote controls do you suggest I need ? The one that comes with it puts it into the same non-power-saving mode that the button on the front does.

And then you get the 3 minute 'power-on self-test' sequence. Thanks a bundle for that idiotic idea.

Technology is meant to solve problems not CREATE them.

Graham

Well, the 'switched' wall outlet is inconveniently located (consider it inaccessible), so everything is run from multi-outlet extension leads (none of which are switched and I don't ever recall seing a switched one in a UK store).

Secondly, if you physically remove power from the STB, you then have to wait around 3 mins while it 'self-tests' etc during which time you get no TV picture or sound. Following this it takes up to 10 minures more for the programme guide to 'catch up' too (althought that alone is of less bother to me).

The fact is that Samsung need their backsides kicking for making such a sloppy piece of kit.

Graham

Whereas you think bad product design is the consumer's fault apparently.

Graham

Understood. That's why I suggested what I did (wondering as I did so why I'd never seen what I was drawing in a store).

I agree that this seems like a consumer unfriendly design. Seems like you should be able to manually select a channel and watch it while the box does its internal housekeeping.

Well, I'm not going to kick their butt for you - but you can tell 'em I said I wouldn't have such an unfriendly POS in /my/ house. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Guess again.

of

store).

However you know those 'torpedo switch' type things that were once popular for table lamps etc which is what I imagined you might have in mind for a switch ? Those are now strictly verboten (and unavailable) on safety grounds. Too many cases of electrocution.

picture

guide

That would be a big improvement.

sloppy

I certainly will.

Graham

power

You are correct, more like $20 to $25 *MINUS* the time/cost it would be ON anyway. What his actual usage is we don't know.

Yes, You are wrong! (as usual) But at least you knew it this time, it seems. Try 13.40 UKPounds MINUS what it costs to run when you are actually using it. Of course if you DON'T use it, simply unplug it from the mains. Problem solved !!!!!!!!!!!

MrT.

*yawn*

You're most welcome.

So lets see now, there are two thing that piss you off with this product in your situation (apart from the design aspect no one has ever argued):

1) It's inconvenient to switch on and off 2) It takes 3 minutes to "boot up"

Yet you'd presumably like to lower the power consumption when not being used. Hmm, nows lets think real hard about this for about one second... Oh, I know, there is this amazing product called a mains timer, you can get them for a few bucks from your hardware or grocery store. What it does it really amazing, it allows you to switch off appliances based on your usage habits, you just program the on-off times. Have it come on before you will need it, and bingo, no power-on problem. Amazing.

You sleep at reasonably predictable times like most people I'm assuming? Have it switch off while you are sleeping for starters. That might be a third of a day off, not a bad saving, timer would probably pay for itself in a year.

Dave.

Then the stupid thing has to power up from scratch every time I want to use it going through self-test and what not.

AND the mains plug is NOT conveniently located.

Graham

Absolutely not.

You know, I'd thought of that but I don't work fixed hours and my waking/sleeping patterns are quite unusual.

Neat idea but not practical here.

Graham

??

Okay, you're wrong.

17 w * 24hrs/day * 365 days/yr = 148.9 kWh / year 148.9 kWhr / year * 9p /kWhr = 13.40£ / year

daestrom (unless you were talking the older penny, shilling, pound, I never did understand that currency very well)

.

Noticed the Electus stuff on that site so I had a quick hunt on Jaycar. Here's a few more products that may be of interest...

8 Way Powerboard with Master/Slave Control (MS4062)

- 4 "full time" outlets, 1 master, 3 switched slave

4 Outlet Remote Control Powerboard

- each outlet has its own on/off button on the remote control

USB Activated 6 Way Powerboard (MS4032)

I ended up buying one of those little power meters too. I'm more interested in measuring the consumption of my computers, since 5 of them stay on 24/7. Interesting to see that a 1800VA UPS (which I presume is standby, not line interactive) with no load connected still consumes 33W. An E2200 / 4GB RAM / 1 x 80GB HD / 5 x 750GB HD box running FreeBSD 6.2 consumes 115W at idle - HDs powered on but no seek activity, no NFS requests, CPU frequency throttled back to 273MHz. Switching off frequency throttling and going back up to 2189MHz only adds about 4W consumption! Spinning down the HDs when idle would save more power.

I know these figures are not going to be wholly accurate but I'm using them for relative comparisons; I can see now that trying to find the best balance between CPU frequency/consumption and performance is probably a waste of time.