how is carbon tax gonna work ?

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if the carbon tax  does go thru , how is this gonna help reduce pollutants ?

ummmmm   IT WONT !!!

what ever businesses are making now , they are gonna continue to make , and
there fore make the same amount of pollutants.its just a scam for the
government to get   more money .

isnt it funny ?//  you can make as much pollution as you want as  long as
you pay for it..



Re: how is carbon tax gonna work ?
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Marky, since the cost of electricity has increased substantially do you
turn your lights off more or only run your a/c when its really necessary?

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This last 1/4 our bill read practically the same amount yet rose 17%
  guess what I said and then realised the carbon tax wont help us part
from charging more than it should for sfa performance , 10% more power
bill does not happy me make
  Labor will fail again and again and again whilst in office , time for
an election

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Re: how is carbon tax gonna work ?

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Yeah... as though the Libs will remove the tax when in a position to
do so. LOL. Wake up!! Abbott is simply being opportunistic and getting
a free and easy ride opposing this at the moment.

I hate Labor as much as I hate the Libs and Greens.
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM.
THEY ARE NOT THERE TO SERVE THE VOTING PUBLIC.

It never ceases to mystify me why so many ppl think the 'opposition'
parties will save the day on any given issues such as this one. Just
looks at the last, say, 30 years in Australia. I've never seen any
evidence to support the notion that voting for the opposition has ever
done anything to the contrary.

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Hey, don't lump The Greens with LIB/LAB .

The ALP & NLP are in lock step appeasing the wants of the corporate world.

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There is a BIG difference between The Greens and the rest.

The Greens oppose,

* The continuation in an open ended war in Afghanistan and anywhere else
America decides to invade.

* The buy up (investment) of Australia of foreign multinationals (selling
the farms to
foreigners)

* The northern territory racist intervention, started by Howard continued by
theALP.

* Continued support for the never ever GST also implemented by Howard.

* The support of corporate subsidies (fuel/water /electricity rebates), i.e.
using our tax dollar (using our
nations borrowing capacity) to prop up multinational  swindlers.

* The off shore processing (torture) of asylum seekers.

* Not taking "direct action" (not the NLP version), on climate change but
using some market trading mechanism to bring about the change on pollution.

* Blind support for Israel's continuing war crimes.

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All very laudable that the Greens oppose those things, and until very
recently I'd have never lumped the Greens in with the other two.

But now - and I hate to use the phrase here but it fits - the Greens
have 'jumped the shark' politically, just like the Democrats did.

Fact is, the Greens are supporting this carbon tax, and for that
reason alone is enough for me to lose respect for them. This tax has
*nothing* to do with reducing emissions and will be twisted/abused
over time to drive prices up.

Here in Tasmania, most of our electricuty is hydro generated and yet
it seems that won't be taken into consideration carbon tax-wise.

We already pay way over the true cost of electricity here simply
because we have some bullshit called 'Basslink' operated by the
National Grid Australia Pty Ltd - a U.K company no less.
It means we've agreed to set prices in line with the mainland prices,
even though it costs nothing like those prices to produce that power.
This carbon tax is just more of the same kind of shit. Just like Opec.

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I don't agree , it's the political process , they have to negotiate and make
some compromises on their core belief .
That is, compromise as long as they don't altogether abandon everything just
to please the other side.

They would prefer a higher price, but it's at least a start considering the
bitch fight and several leaders deposed to get here.

With all the set backs this scheme is a far better one than the one proposed
by K Rudd, that handed billions in compensation to the polluters.

The democrats on the other hand betrayed their core beliefs & SOLD OUT, some
in the party saw it a "natural progress" of the party to make big deals with
the government to become more main stream & relevant.

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It's a piss week amount and a low target of 5%, but it's a start, and
eventually the polluters will clean up their act to save on paying this tax.

But there are also other incentives for the renewable industry, and I've
heard a lot of these companies shares have jumped in value on the Stock
market overnight .

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I can't see how the carbon tax should have any influence on the cost of
Hydro electricity.

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I think this has more to do with privatisation of electricity than the
carbon tax.
We have had NSW ALP destroyed over internal fighting to fully privatise
electricity grid here.
It's the way of incompetent governments when they get short on cash they
flog off another public asset to balance the books.






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On this one particular issue, it's just too much of a compromise for
me I'm afraid. This carbon tax is the most serious threat to our
country that I can ever recall. There is NO way it will stay in it's
current incarnation. Its just the tip of the iceberg.

They've also compromised on a number of other issues, now that they've
gone 'mainstream'.

Actually, I just realised another reason why I'm no longer a Greens
supporter - and that is here in Tas we have a Labor/Greens coalition
govt. Lately there has been a number of issues that simply have left
us (as in people of all political persuasions) shaking our heads.

Only last week they finally backed down from closing 20 regional
schools here. The reason for the planned closure was to save $28
million... over 4 years. I won't go into detail, but it was a
stunningly stupid idea and would have decimated many vibrant
communities, people would have choice but to move. Businesses were in
danger of closing, etc. Hundreds of people dropped everything, their
jobs, businesses, just to fight it. As mentioned, they finally backed
down. The education minister is Nick McKim - a Green. Our genius of a
premier referred to the whole nightmare as "a leaning experience".
These people in power are just simply worse than useless.

I have no faith in any of the major parties. Budget deficit? No
problem, lets sell off some infrastructure! Yes, just brilliant...


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Totally agree, except the Greens are well on their way down the exact
same path, though I will concede they are likely to survive it.


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Look, I'm all for reducing pollution (remember that word?), but this
carbon tax concept aint going to do it. I'll wager the very people
it's meant to bring into line will end up actually benefiting from it.
Wait until it becomes linked into a world-wide system. Control of
essential services like electricity and water should never be taken
away from us, but that's what's happened.

Our water is next, in fact the world's water supply is being bought up
by corporations. It's the new oil.

 'carbon' appears to be such a big boogeyman, yet I see nothing
mentioned about plastic, or overpopulation.

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It shouldn't. but it looks like we'll be paying the tax regardless.
Funny that.

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Yep, I was just citing another example where we (Tasmanians) were told
this was to be of great benefit to us, when in fact it is precisely
the opposite. I see the carbon tax being in the same category.

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Yup. Can you even imagine our federal and state governments behaving
so unethically say, 30 years ago? Ditto most anywhere else in the
western world for that matter.

The stuff they do these days, as a matter of course, would have been
completely out of the question back then. Capitalism is sick... and
needs a major overhaul. I think things need to get a whole lot worse
before everybody finally wakes up and gets on the same page.


Re: how is carbon tax gonna work ?
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A carbon tax will not work and will be counterproductive.

The technology for renewable energy doesn't exist.  The most efficient
form of renewable energy could produce power at about 20c to 25c/
KW.Hr.

This compares to 5c for thermal brown coal.  Nuclear maybe 10c when
disposal of waste and decomissioning is considered.

The Germans spent 70 billion euro to generate 0.2% of their energy
needs (2% of their electricity needs, about 6% during the day)

Rouughtly to gurantee 1kW of power continiuous one would need
1 For wind $10,000 investment in wind turbines, gas turbine backup and
some energy storage.
2 For solar about $35,000
3 For a combined cycle gas turbine plant, $600.00


Assuming 5% payback over 20 years, 8% interest per year inclusive of
profit, 2.5% maintenance and 2.5% running costs we end up haveing to
add 18% to get the annual cost.

We just need to throw a lot of money at R+D.

The best result will be to push conventional technology: for instance
hydrograsification of coal (80% efficient) to make natural gas and the
new 61% efficient combined cycle gas turbines from GE and Siemens
which can ramp to full power in 30 minutes.  Install gas to more
houses.

That should halve the CO2 output and the capital cost probably 1/10th
of wind power.

ie a 35% power station emits twice as much CO2 per unit of power than
as a 48% power stations.

And what about encouraging more fuel efficient cars?



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They'd find a way of costing loss of forrest and outgasing of rotting
vegetation.


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And now they want to be compensated.

Re: how is carbon tax gonna work ?

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At least they tried to do the right thing, and guess which economy in Europe
is the strongest ?????

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All are short-sighted excuses- not solutions. The fossil fuels are a
temporary
resource that we are wasting because of the short-sighted attitudes no doubt
due to bribery and corruption.


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You have to make 'em cheap to buy and even cheaper to run, and then
overcome the bastards who are making millions out of flogging oil.....





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More like "which ship is sinking the slowest" ?.  They will just slide
into oblivion
if they do things like this rather than providing affordable energy.
Nuclear is a
far better choice - if you still believe in this C02 stuff.

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That sounds more realistic.

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]
Bribery and corruption - yes
IE:

Fake oil shortage scares manufactured by the oil companies in order to
drive up prices through artificial scarcity.

If there were viable alternatives to oil, then the US would not need
to be invading every middle east country in these
illegal wars, on behalf of the oil companies, (paid for through your
tax dollars though)
who simply want monopoly control of all the oil, and the oil market to
charge whatever they want.

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If you take a look at how it works, big oil (especially BP as it holds
patents and has interests in many solar/wind technologies and
products) are
pushing hard for the carbon tax so people will be pressured to buy
these and generate revenue.
This means they stand to profit out of it, some say a massive profit,
even compared to their oil profits

As oil is an essential resource that they control,
they can up prices even more, and blame it on the carbon tax, and the
fake "environmental problems" associated with it
BP also funds green groups like WWF, who also help with price fixing
by pushing for certain oil fields not to be used, (usually in western
countries)
this also helps limit oil supply, keep smaller players out of the
market and further push the "artificial scarcity"/high prices scam.


These people and those behind them have the money and power to buy any
government, media, (to control public perception
and push propaganda advantageous to their interests) research,
education
and everything you rely on.

Nothing is allowed to be done that does not profit these people and
increase their power.



Re: how is carbon tax gonna work ?

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More like "which ship is sinking the slowest" ?.  They will just slide
into oblivion
if they do things like this rather than providing affordable energy.
Nuclear is a
far better choice - if you still believe in this C02 stuff.


** The Krauts have consigned the NUKE industry to the waste bin.
Despite having one of the largest NUKE programs in the world.
it is obvious that the costs vs risks has shifted the political goalposts
recently. That is the result of so-called democracy - stupid people
tend to vote for stupid people. (Avoid the MAD MONK - he is a religious
fruitcake that belongs in the ISLAM category of nutters. Catholics are just
as
stupid as Muslims - they believe in imaginary things.) BTW I favour
NUKEs, nuclear power is a logical development in the history of science
that is being undermined by emotional arguements. IMHO the recent
developments just show there is a serious problem with the so-called
democratic system. Too many idiots get to vote, while the true science is
politicalised.




Re: how is carbon tax gonna work ?
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Like 80% of australia you are planning to vote against labour for
costing you a few cents. The interesting thing is that everyone
complains about pollies having no backbone but when they show some they
get punished by the voters.
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Re: how is carbon tax gonna work ?
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  No I vote agasint labor for lack of honest policy and no fiscal
ability , and them being reds doesn't help
  Hence by default they lose
The interesting thing is that everyone
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  strawman
  We don't need another tax but we do need some fiscal management that
doest piss away billions on replacing a perfectly viable communications
system
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Re: how is carbon tax gonna work ?
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I agree labour are idiots and I won't vote for them for the same reasons
as you. Why are we spending billions to effectively watch TV via the
internet? However the carbon tax is the first thing labour have done
that I have liked. It shows some real balls doing something the voters
obviously don't like but that we really need. We do need something to
slow down carbon use and help encourage green energy. It's something
I've wanted most of my life. The problem with taking fuel out of the
ground is that you are effectively getting it for free, you don't have
to purchase the coal or oil off anyone. If you can get it out of the
ground for 1c per litre then it can be sold for 10c a litre. There's no
incentive to do it any other way.
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Re: how is carbon tax gonna work ?
you wont be liking it when you start paying more for energy...
they just think of other ways to screw money out of ya,,.,,
carbon tax  got  nothing to do with makin cleaner air..
you still dont  get it  , do you ,,  you can  MAKE AS MUCH POLLUTION AS YOU
WANT AS LONG AS YOU PAY FOR IT.


instead of   paying carbon tax , would nt it be better for companies  to be
told  to reduce the amount of pollution they make by a certain time or
they`lll be fined ?


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Re: how is carbon tax gonna work ?
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We don't need the ridiculous scam tax or NBN..
Sucking up to global banks and corporations who want this tax, and
funded this scam
and doing their dirty deeds as well as pushing this debunked C02
garbage does not take balls.

It's cowardly, and it is selling out Australians for the sake of
personal gain.
Lying to 20 million Aussies that you arent' bringing it in in order to
get votes is despicable.
( I was going to say selling out your country, but Gillard isn't an
Australian in any way whatsoever)

Having balls would be exposing it, coming clean on it and stopping
it.  That is what is brave, heroic
and self sacrificing for your country and future generations.  That
takes real balls.
People who sell out cheap are the lowest of the low.



The only way to resolve this is to make the carbon pricing system
voluntary, or at least an "opt out". This way it keeps both sides
happy.

For example, anyone who wants it, gets a card they can swipe when they
buy anything, and it can add the cost of the "carbon"
to the product.  It can then go directly into funding "alternatvies",
but not into donations for political parties, advertising, lobbying
or anything that would force these views onto others.

This is the only way that is fair and more importantly respects the
rights and freedoms of all Australians on both sides




Re: how is carbon tax gonna work ?
yes , if no ones in the room, light is of.
and yes  , only use  a/c only when necessary.


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Re: how is carbon tax gonna work ?
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**The carbon tax will go through. It SHOULD reduce the amount of CO2 emitted
by Australian industry, because industry will attempt to lower their costs
of doing business, by choosing lower emission technologies, processes and
power sources. Do you have your head permantly up your arse?

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**Prove it. Prove that Abbott's, discredited, taxpayer funded system will be
better. That's your choice, after all.

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**Clearly, you have no idea.

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**If the government has chosen the numbers correctly, then business will
choose lower emissions methods and CO2 pollution will fall.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: how is carbon tax gonna work ?

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Nobody with a brain would trust the MAD MONK anyway.  Anyone who believes
in imaginary god(s) and wants to implement any religious policy whatsoever
should
be automatically excluded from any public office in Australia.

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Similar schemes have gathered a lot of support in Europe.
Not in the USA however, the voters there are far to self-centered and mostly
ignorant
of the rest of the world..,,,,

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