Electronic Rust protection for cars?

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I have seen some devices advertised claiming to prevent or slow down rust in
cars? Is this possible?
I know some of them are obvious frauds, but some use a sacrificial anode and
some electronic driving them. Are they worth the modey and do they work?



Re: Electronic Rust protection for cars?



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I don't think much has changed since the 90's
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1995/08/rustevad.htm

And  here is the opinion of Leo Simpson, editor of Silicon Chip
magazine.
http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_100606/article.html

While elctronic corrosion protection will work on marine vessels I
tend to agree with Leo regarding automobiles....

Re: Electronic Rust protection for cars?


I was also always sceptical about this too; and still am.  But
while I believe normal and common industrial cathodic protection
(based on a sacrificial anode immersed in water)  won't work on
cars due to the lack of a water medium there is another form of
electronic protection called anodic protection that appears to
be soundly based  scientifically and engineering wise and if a
suitable medium coating is applied to the car's body both
cathodic and anodic protection may well work.   Some sellers of
these devices do also claim to coat the card with a special
medium, (but I wonder in this is just really rust preventing
deodorised fish oil rather than a conductive medium)

What makes me wonder if anodic protection at least  might be
made to work on a car is a quote from the well regarded Bosch -
SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)  Automotive Handbook (6th
edition in this case but similar things are in earlier editions)
' ...another option [to cathodic protection which moves the
potential so no anodic current flows or using a sacrificial
anode] is to shift the potential of the threatened electrode
into the passive range between Up and Ud.  This is called anodic
protection.  The anodic currents, which flow in the passive
range , are less than those in the active range by exponential
powers of between 3 and 6, depending on the type of metal and
the corrosive medium.  The result is excellent protection for
the metal.  However, the potential should not exceed Ud as
oxygen would be produced in this transpassive range, potentially
leading to higher rates of oxidation."

Certainly some sellers of these electronic corrosion protection
devices claim that as the use anodic protection the lack of a
suitable medium isn't an issue.  See
http://www.rust.bizland.com/Auto_Rust_Protection/index.html 'The
anodic protection provides significant reduction of the
formation of corrosion to painted and unpainted surfaces, proven
by independent laboratory tests conducted in accordance with
ASTM procedures for the testing of corrosion resistance in the
presence of salt fog and extreme humidity. "



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Regards
Blue

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Re: Electronic Rust protection for cars?


And have a look at these patent documents:
 http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT3498898&id=u_plAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=automotive+anodic+corrosion+protection#PPA1971,M1andhttp://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4226694&id=QLQ6AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=automotive+anodic+corrosion+protection--RegardsBlueRemove
ZX from email address to reply directly.

Re: Electronic Rust protection for cars?


That was meant to be :

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4226694&id=QLQ6AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=vehicle+anodic+corrosion+protection

and

http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en&lr=&vid=USPAT5478451&id=K5wgAAAAEBAJ&oi=fnd&dq=vehicle+anodic+corrosion+protection

and

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT3498898&id=u_plAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=vehicle+anodic+corrosion+protection

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Regards
Blue

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Re: Electronic Rust protection for cars?


and
http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en&lr=&vid=USPAT4798658&id=wxczAAAAEBAJ&oi=fnd&dq=electronic+vehicle+corrosion+protection

and

http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en&lr=&vid=USPAT4828665&id=Qf4tAAAAEBAJ&oi=fnd&dq=electronic+vehicle+corrosion+protection

NB The existence of these patent documents doesn't mean any of
them actually work but they do explain how they are meant to
work.

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Regards
Blue

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Re: Electronic Rust protection for cars?


On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 07:03:49 GMT, "aussiblu"

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I put all automobile electronic corrosion claims in the same bag as
magnetic fuel saving devices.

While there are no brand names used in this article the conclusion
appears to be that electronic corrosion control does not work
http://ziebart.mb.ca/home/content/view/55/2 /


Re: Electronic Rust protection for cars?


On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:30:27 GMT, Ross Herbert

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Interesting.


Exactly as described, opinion. Not worth a pinch of shit.

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Passive protection is usually used in marine applications. I have
never seen a commercial vessel with electronic protection. They do it
the hard way with anodes and paint/coatings.

I do remember doing a module at uni on corrosian mitigation, and i
faintly remember the lecturer there describing exactly why these
mechanisims do not work. I cant really remember how it works but a
quick flick through materials sites on the web and one quickly notices
the absence of electronic protection theories.

If anyone can remember the different forms of corrosion and the good
ol' redox reductions then they will quickly find the answer. Perhaps
this thread could be crossposted to a good chemistry group (i dont
know of any).

Re: Electronic Rust protection for cars?


I have seen cathodic protection used commercially to protect
steel pylons in jetties (eg the WA Jervoise Bay/Cockburn Sound
Offshore Construction site) and bridges. It is also used with
storage hot water systems with sacrificial anodes. But both
applications have a water medium to work in. I also believe it
is commonly used with steel hulled ships and underground
pipelines but all these too exist in a wet medium.

Perhaps if you and you car live in Hobart or Melbourne there
will be enough constant rain for it to work (an irresistible
cheap shot from a west aussie I know; sorry).

There seems no end of patents for car based system; another
vehicle related patent is
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4798658&id=wxczAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=cathodic+vehicle+corrosion+protection#PPA3-IA1,M1

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Blue

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Re: Electronic Rust protection for cars?


On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 10:10:09 GMT, "aussiblu"

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Just reading a materials book I have. The section on corrosion is very
breif, but it shows the use of electronics corrosion protection with
large, buried liquid fuel tanks. It is very different to the 'auto
ERP' systems given the fact that they still use sacrificail anodes.

This book refers endlessly to another book called 'Corrosion
Engineering' by M.G Fontana. Anyone have a copy?

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Re: Electronic Rust protection for cars?


On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 10:10:09 GMT, "aussiblu"

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http://www.corrosion-doctors.org keeps it relatively simple but
provides some very good answers

Re: Electronic Rust protection for cars?


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http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4798658&id=wxczAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=cathodic+vehicle+corrosion+protection#PPA3-IA1,M1
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CRap re weather in Melbourne being wet. We all wish it were.Theres a
drought. But on average you havent even figured out the SYDNEY usually
gets more H2O than Melbourne. And more lightning and hail storms.
Hobart gets wet and cold and rust works well in the windy city.

Re: Electronic Rust protection for cars?


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When we purchased a new car in 2005 one of the overpriced aftermarket
products the dealer tried to sell us was electronic rust protection. On
a new car! They also offered tinting at about twice the price of a
known brand. The chick spruiking their wares looked incredibly bored,
she probably does this all day. :)

We declined all offers. We just want the car thanks.


Re: Electronic Rust protection for cars?



rowan194 wrote:

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They tried telling me that if a bat decided to shit on the duco, the
shit might eat through the paint, and the paint protection (thats part
of this stupid overpriced package) will protect against this.

My reply was that the paint must be pretty shit quality to be that
easily damaged, and that Im not the sort of feral person to just leave
a turd sitting on a new car for weeks to let it eat through the paint.


I eventually bought the car at another dealership, and saved about
$1500.  They didnt try to sell me the package of extras for some
reason.

101,040 km and 5 years later, the unprotected paint is still in
beautiful condition :)


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