Electronic clocks in applicances?

Yep , they are going to use sundials .

Geez, they would cost less than your cold water from the fridge !! Change your focus mate !!!!

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Regards ......... Rheilly Phoull

Are you talking about the displays? because the actually clock chips and crystals can keep the time drawing just a few uA at 3.3V so power is like 8 microwatt.

small LCD display (2x 16 characters) draws most power from the backlight which is usually 100mA at 5V, 0.5W.

In a day then its 12w hours. Compared to a 100W light globe of 2400w hours.

So LCD clock running all day is about equal to 8 minutes of a light.

Of course most clock LCD will draw a lot less than 0.5W, probably typically

0.1 or 0.2W.

**Yep. I've heard the same bullshit.

How much power

**About the same amount in one year as a two bar heater will use in a few hours. Or as much in one week as a few halogen downlights will use in one hour.

Are there any plans by major manufacturers to

**Yep. There are no plans to get consumers to switch to Solar hot water, however, which would REALLY reduce power consumption. Of to get people to wear an extra sweater during the Winter, instead of running that central heating. Or to choose more efficient appliances (better air conditioners, 'fridges, etc) instead of buggering around with inconsequential things.

Education and common sense will reduce electricity consumption for more efficiently that turning off a DVD player.

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Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Dand" wrote in news:43be748d$0$10679$ snipped-for-privacy@news.optusnet.com.au:

Ok, but 12WH per household. I still think you can save a fair bit for a city. Surely the question is what are they used for. Are most people that organised to prepare their meal and have the microwave start before they get home etc. etc.?

**Sure, but not by switching off clocks. Switching to Solar hot water would almost halve domestic power consumption. Now THAT is significant.

Surely the question is what are they used for. Are most people

**Again, you're attacking an almost non-existent problem, whilst ignoring the major issue. Heating (including hot water) and cooling are THE major power consumption areas. Then cooking. Lighting is next, followed by all the other stuff. Hot water, on it's own, represents between 30% and 50% of the average electricity usage (assuming electric off-peak).

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

would

the

With global warming , cold showers will be the norm and * that * will reduce electricity consumption heaps

Energy saving tip #6: The Phantom Load! ______________________________ Want to chill out and watch a movie? It's a great idea and easy to do, considering the typical family owns two televisions, one VCR or DVD player and a cable/satellite or game system box. Those appliances have a combined energy consumption of about 500 kilowatts for one year, which is more than an energy efficient refrigerator.

You turn your televisions, VCRs and DVD players off when they are not being used. So you think they aren't wasting electricity, right? Wrong! Many of these appliances run on standby power when they are turned off to operate clocks and remote devices. The energy used by an appliance when it is shut off is called "the phantom load". It sounds ominous and it is, costing you more on your monthly utility bill than you need to pay.

A typical 25-inch television will consume 90-watts of energy when on, and 4.5-watts when on standby. Therefore, if you only watch the TV for an hour a day, your paying more for power consumption when the TV is off than on. VCRs and DVD players are worse and use only about 5 per cent of their total energy for intended use (playing and recording videos/DVDs). The biggest culprits however, are cable boxes, satellites decoders and video game boxes. These devices will use almost as much energy off as on.

So what's an entertainment loving person to do? Unplug devices that use standby power when you are not using them. This includes anything with a clock, like a coffee maker or a microwave (seriously, who needs five clocks in their kitchen?). Even better, you can plug everything into a power bar (chances are it already is) and just click off the power bar switch when finished. A quick, easy and effective way to eliminate the phantom load.

You don't have to stop in the family room. Anything that has a wall cube transformer (plugs that are little black or gray boxes) carry a phantom load too. When you feel them, they may be hot. That heat represents energy being consumed that you pay for, but don't use. Take a couple of minutes to walk around your house or business a do a quick inventory of appliances that are plugged in and using electricity that really don't have to be. You could end up saving yourself some money.

Always remember to look for the Energy Star symbol when shopping for new appliances. The Energy Star ensures that the product meets strict government and international standards for energy efficiency.

For more information on appliances, the "phantom load", or other energy saving tips, contact the South West Shore Energy Office at (902)

875-2915 or E-mail at snipped-for-privacy@swsda.com.

Jason Hollett is the Energy Officer for the South West Shore Energy Office

Forgive me, but this is about 1.4kW per day; that's a whole lot of devices at the stated 4.5W each. If you had 20 such devices it'd still only be less than 400kWhr per year. And how much would you save? Are you paying $0.15 per kWhr? What's that - $60?? Scale it by your real cost of power and see if it's worthwhile.

It's a total crock, put out by bureaucrats who get a pass mark for putting out edicts telling people how to run their lives, rather than doing something useful, like increasing supply capacity where needed.

Ken

I know that here in WA supply capacity is a "potential" problem during hot weather, but standby power consumption is not an issue for peak demand calculations but rather part of a push for overall energy efficiency in the home.

see it as that home x millions x year after year after year.

clocks in various appliances are often on different times or flashing

00:00 and are a TOTAL waste of energy, and if you are not there to see the time, what is the point of its existence?

: Forgive me, but this is about 1.4kW per day; that's a whole lot of devices : at the stated 4.5W each. If you had 20 such devices it'd still only be less : than 400kWhr per year. And how much would you save? Are you paying $0.15 per : kWhr? What's that - $60?? Scale it by your real cost of power and see if : it's worthwhile. : : It's a total crock, put out by bureaucrats who get a pass mark for putting : out edicts telling people how to run their lives, rather than doing : something useful, like increasing supply capacity where needed. : : Ken : :

Granted, but that's not the entirety of the issue. The amount of extra energy by having a clock function on the appliance is insignificant given that it won't be switched off at the wall anyway. People just

*aren't* going to reach around and turn the things off at the wall. Do you??

What's the % of power to be saved here, compared to efficiencies to be gained by using energy efficient appliances and homes/buildings, greater use of solar heating, and back-feeding to the grid? What about commercial lighting left on inappropriately? The bureaucratic easy-fix is a crock.

Cheers.

Ken

I hope your not a 12 oclock flasher !!!!!!!!!!

: > see it as that home x millions x year after year after year. : >

: > clocks in various appliances are often on different times or flashing : > 00:00 and are a TOTAL waste of energy, and if you are not there to see : > the time, what is the point of its existence? : >

: Granted, but that's not the entirety of the issue. The amount of extra : energy by having a clock function on the appliance is insignificant : given that it won't be switched off at the wall anyway. People just : *aren't* going to reach around and turn the things off at the wall. Do you?? : : What's the % of power to be saved here, compared to efficiencies to be : gained by using energy efficient appliances and homes/buildings, greater : use of solar heating, and back-feeding to the grid? What about : commercial lighting left on inappropriately? The bureaucratic easy-fix : is a crock. : : Cheers. : : Ken

domestic peak demand is around 9pm, long after the backfeed from solar panels has ceased, but the "insignificant" standby waste is on 24H/day, burning extra coal and producing tonnes of CO2. An "energy efficient appliance"s in my book is one which doesn't consume when it is not being used. eg: an electric kettle is efficient, a VCR or TV or VCD is not efficient.

I measured a sony TV recently and it was drawing 10 Watts when switched off with the remote. That is probably mostly in the power supply losses, as you point out, the actual load electronics is probably not using more than half a watt.

There are not many small transformers that draw less than a Watt even when not loaded at all. For example most plug-packs get noticeably warm even when they are not connected to anything.

Chris

In the life of many microwave ovens more than 50% of the energy would be used in running the clock, and less than 50% in running the microwave part. Get yourself a good energy meter and try it in your house. Obviously if you use the microwave to cook 50 dinners every day then this will not be the case for you but it is often true. Still TVs are probably far more wasteful than microwave ovens.

The real problem is getting the appliance manufacturer to install a 240V rated switch before the power supply where they would prefer to install a low voltage switch after the power supply. Most portable radios have this problem even though they don't have a display to power.

Insulating houses better and using solar hot water are more important uses of effort, but when a TV + set top box can use 50 Watts all the time, and if there is another 150 Watts of phantom loads around the house, the energy use adds up to quite a lot over the years. It only goes unnoticed because electric power is so cheap.

Chris

part.

energy

Quick calculation here - an 800W microwave on for, say, 30 min's a day. That's 1/50th of the day - is the clock going to consume 16W? Maybe, but I doubt it (OP referenced an article which I admittedly bagged which suggested

4.5W for the clocks, so there's a comparism). And it doesn't matter if the unused clock is in a TV, a VCR or a microwave - if it's unused, it's wasteful. Interesting point though - how much power does a 'normal' TV use in standby? Must find a spec.....

I don't really have a beef with the idea of not using power when it isn't required, but if these facilities aren't required, then they shouldn't be put in. In fact, since the energy-conscious people feel so strongly, they should invest in producing and selling appliances which don't have the clocks and so forth, and which power down after some interval or incident so that they have to be powered up again. Let's see if these appliances sell better than the current crop.

I'd suggest not - people want gizmos and ease-of-use, and getting up off your arse and switching something back on just isn't going to cut it. The idea of going over and switching off (or unplugging, for Christ's sake!) at the wall is just ludicrous. It's a waste of time to even suggest this nonsense and devalues the idea of total energy conservation. We should be paying attention to the major issues of our power problems, not pissing about the edges, easy though it is to talk about it.

As for power being cheap - do *you* want to pay more? And the fact that the peak occurs at night is irrelevant too - the idea is to gain total systemic efficiencies, which just isn't occurring now.

Cheers.

Ken

I thought those cheap two knob microwaves: timer and power setting were only turned on when the timer knob was set. These would use no quiescient current you'd think.