Earth Hour headache for power suppliers - Page 2

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary

Translate This Thread From English to

Threaded View
Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Already done.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Nope. The discussion is SPECIFICALLY concerned with PCs that are left on
overnight and not actually being used. I added figures for typical use (not
gaming or high end graphics). Typical office type workloads barely tax a
modern CPU.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Indeed. An operating hard drive uses more power.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

**I said NOTHING of the sort. You can make all the assumptions you wish. I
merely quote VERY broad, APPROXIMATE powers, disputing the FIVE HUNDRED
WATTS originally claimed. Since you are being pedantic and mildly annoying,
I will make the assumption (since you enjoy making your own assumptions)
that you agree with the original premise that typical office computers
(modern, PC style) consume 500 Watts, at night, when not actually being
used. Well, I'm here to tell you that you are wrong. They don't use anything
remotely close to that much power.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Like I said: You are wrong. Typical office style PCs do not use anything
remotely close to 500 Watts at idle.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



Quoted text here. Click to load it
20
can
on

Yeah right! That's why you "figure" "maybe".


Quoted text here. Click to load it


So why don't you answer MY complaint about what YOU wrote, rather than
deciding what YOU want to discuss instead! Obviously you are not prpared to
back up your original sttement, the ONE to which *I* specifically addressed
my argument.
What a waste of time you are.


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Not in dispute, but still does not prove you spurious claim.


Quoted text here. Click to load it
in
a
when
measured


Oh yes you did. You claimed 2W for an operating monitor, then say yours is
20VA, so which is it?


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Nope, YOU specified a range of power between 70-130 W for a PC *IN USE*,
(50-100W in standby) and it's still there at the top of the post for all to
see!


 >Since you are being pedantic and mildly annoying,

You OTOH are being a complet pain in the arse!


Quoted text here. Click to load it
anything

Please quote where I ever said they did. Like all your assumptions it seems,
you are once again full of shit!


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Which was NEVER in dispute in any of MY posts. Try reading what I wrote, not
what you would prefer to respond to.
And of course your claim of 70-130W for a PC *IN USE* is still wrong, and
your continual effort to try and change the subject simply proves you still
cannot support such a statement.

MrT.





Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



Quoted text here. Click to load it


**I said nothing of the sort.

Again, you are making more assumptions. Just like the one where you claimed
that typical office PCs use 500 Watts when not in use.

If you are in doubt, I suggest you read up on the following:

'Energy star'

As it pertains to monitors that are not in use, but automatically switch to
standby.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers

Quoted text here. Click to load it

And you only NOW snip what you said to prove it :-) :-) :-)
(I left it in *every* post in the vain hope you might actually read it)

What a wanker you are Trevor!

MrT.



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Oops. Here is your claim:

"Oh yes you did. You claimed 2W for an operating monitor"

I said nothing of the sort.

Now go check up 'Energy Star' as it pertains to computer monitors.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



Quoted text here. Click to load it

So why did you need to snip it then when you had snipped *nothing* up til
now?
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Note the IN USE statement which is what *I* SPECIFICALLY referred to.


"> Figure on around 2 Watts for the monitor"

Anyone else can easily see what you actually wrote, and how you continually
tried to redefine the argument to suit yourself. Frankly you are not worth
wasting any more of my time on though!

MrT.




Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Because, frankly, the whole thing is very, very tiresome. You chose to
ignore the obviously moronic comment about 500 Watt PCs, yet chose, instead,
to focus on my comments which placed the actual operating power levels of
PCs in standby in some kind of sense. I can only wonder why you chose to
quibble about a handful of Watts, rather than concentrating on the '500
Watt' figure. It seems, therefore, that you agree with this patently
nonsensical figure.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

**I was SPECIFICALLY speaking about computers in standby. Which, if you
cared to read what is written, you may just understand.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



Quoted text here. Click to load it
it)
Quoted text here. Click to load it
til

You have certainly made it so.


Quoted text here. Click to load it


Simply because I never agreed with it!. I responded to what YOU wrote, not
what someone else wrote. That too much for you to comprehend?


Quoted text here. Click to load it

It seems once again you are wrong!


Quoted text here. Click to load it
worth


So what part of  the statement "In use, you can add around 20 ~ 30 Watts"
applies only to standby mode and why?

MrT.



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


Quoted text here. Click to load it

You could also consider the fuel used in people travelling there to
buy this crap.
Considering outlets like these are a primary cause of obesity, this
tends also to
increase car usage, as the bigger you are, the harder to walk or bike
long distances.  The fact that people
in this state tend to be more unhealthy, less efficient with work
ability, means they consume much more resources.

One could also consider the amount of crap in supermarkets these days
too, but I dont think anything comes close to US fast food chains.


Quoted text here. Click to load it

I don't see how we can reduce the use of these resources, short of
reducing population or mandating higher quality
products that last longer and need to be replaced less often. If you
live in a tropical area, and/or high humidity,
air con isn't a luxury. Without it, health problems (especially for
elderly and sick people), lack of productivity etc take their toll.




Quoted text here. Click to load it

Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



Quoted text here. Click to load it

 You're going to have a hard time convincing the current crop of
greenheads, who in their infinite wisdom, have done some reading, and
learned that people in the past did not have air conditioners, and
managed to survive just fine.
 And they quite happily tell the world, writing on their personal
computers, hooked up to an internet feed, sitting in a uber-ergonomic
chair that was constructed from the finest plastic-based fabrics,
refined metal and assortment of damper oils, in a part of the world that
has a temperate climate, that the use of air conditioners is killing the
planet.

Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers
Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Indeed.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

**All correct. My comment was solely aimed at the efficiency of cooking
large numbers of meals at one time.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

**There's plenty of crap in the supermarkets with zero value for human
health.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Really? You can't see that people could, for instance, hold off buying a
new car for another year or so? Or, perhaps, planting some trees, rather
than covering a yard with paving? Building smaller, more energy efficient
homes? Wearing an extra layer of clothing, instead of running heaters?
Re-using a PET bottle with tap water saves energy and resources at almost
zero cost. There are many ways to deal with consumerism, without signicantly
impinging on one's life-style.

 If you
Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Bollocks. Keeping fluids up and acting sensibly is how people deal with
such conditions. They always have. I watched a bunch og builders putting up
a McMansion next door, over the Summer. Even on the hottest days, the
builders were hard at it. No air con for them. They certainly kept their
fluids up though.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers
Quoted text here. Click to load it
I do most of those things already. Every car I have has been kept for
many years before changing (usually when its
becoming too unreliable, or getting to the end of its useful life).  I
always have bought based on fuel efficiency - not for environmental,
but cost reasons.

I don't use heaters (They arent needed here), even when in Moscow in
-5 temp, I didnt find it that cold, and wore the same jumper I use
here
It was a pleasure compared to the summer hell here.

I have kept bottled tap water in old PET bottles in the fridge at home
and work for drinking for probably 25+ years that I can remember.
These things make financial sense. I agree fully with you on the
bottled water bullshit. The only time I had bought it was when
overseas and not trusting the local water.

I dont have paving other than the path and driveway to the garage, but
as for trees, I don't have them either
due to the fact that they grow fast and the cost of removing all the
crap from them is substantial. (as well as fees to dump it)
Also when they starting bringing in the laws banning cutting down
trees, I immediately removed almost all of them, while I was still
allowed to,
rather than being stuck with them forever, considering in the future I
might need the space for a shed (and did) or something else and then
face problems getting rid of them.

I did get the house insulated under Krudd's scheme, it has not reduced
the summer temperature by even one degree.


Quoted text here. Click to load it

In the high humidity where I live, sweat doesn't evaporate, just
sticks to you and you can't cool down, and you drip
sweat over everything you go near.
Just the same, we have only air conditioned the bedroom and the
workshop.

Working outside has some advantages, you can hose yourself down
regularly and
get some relief. you cant do these sort of things working indoors.
Outdoors you cant have air con.

You can drink all the cold water you want, and its of limited
effectiveness for the above reason.
Even if its not that hot (this summer has been pretty mild by
comparison) the humidity is the killer.

After getting severe heat exhaustion some 14 years back after a
particularly long trip in summer, inland & suffering the effects,
I immediately arranged for air con to be put in the work van, and our
own car. Its a decision I never regret. The fuel consumption didnt
really change, probably due to having the windows closed and
maintaining the aerodynamics of the vehicle.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


Quoted text here. Click to load it
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/earth-hour/earth-hour-headache-for-power-suppliers-20100326-r37h.html
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Not amusing that those who wanted to reduce power consumption for an
hour end up reducing it for a day? Oh well, different things amuse
different people I suppose.

In fact, regardless of our senses of humour, it seems unlikely anything
would happen, unless enthusiasm for Earth Hour were much greater than it
actually is. A snapshot of the 5 minute demand graph for NSW at the
relevent time is here

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/earthhour.png

It's taken from

http://www.aemo.com.au/data/GRAPH_5NSW1.html

which changes with time.

Bearing in mind that the time axis is standard time, and that we're
currently in summer time, it's hard to see any impact of Earth Hour.
Certainly variations of a similar magnitude are seen at other times of day.

Sylvia.






Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


Quoted text here. Click to load it
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/earth-hour/earth-hour-headache-for-power-suppliers-20100326-r37h.html
Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Your words:
"It would be really funny if an Earth Hour triggered cascading
blackouts....."

I do not share your sense of humour. Such an event would be catastrophic and
would almost certainly lead to the deaths of people.


Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Which is pretty much what I said elsewhere. It is a symbolic act.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


Quoted text here. Click to load it
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/earth-hour/earth-hour-headache-for-power-suppliers-20100326-r37h.html
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Mostly symbolic of ignorance when people light candles instead, thus
increasing their CO2 output, compared with what they'd have output using
ordinary lighting, and turn off things like refrigerators, which will
simply consume the unconsumed energy when they're turned back on.

Sylvia.





Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


Quoted text here. Click to load it
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/earth-hour/earth-hour-headache-for-power-suppliers-20100326-r37h.html
Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Do they? Who did? I didn't.

 compared with what they'd have output
Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Of course.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


Quoted text here. Click to load it
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/earth-hour/earth-hour-headache-for-power-suppliers-20100326-r37h.html
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Well, presumably you know better. But a lot of people don't, which means
they're protesting about an issue they have little or no understanding of.

BTW, one can certainly buy 'green' electricity for less than the cost
the candles, but try to charge people the cost of candles for the power
they'd be using outside Earth Hour, and they'd definitely be protesting
even louder.

Sylvia.

Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


Quoted text here. Click to load it
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/earth-hour/earth-hour-headache-for-power-suppliers-20100326-r37h.html
Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Perhaps you missed my questions. Here they are again:

Do they? Who did?

 But a lot of people don't, which
Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Of course. The issues are pretty simple. Our CO2 emissions are
unsustainable. We must reduce them. That is the only message that needs to
be conveyed. Trouble is, we have idiots like Steve Fielding arguing his
creationist claptrap against real scientists. This confuses many people. All
that needs to be done is for the idiots to shut the fuck up and allow the
scientists to get the message across.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

**I still want to know who lights candles and why they imagine that this is
a good idea.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


Quoted text here. Click to load it
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/earth-hour/earth-hour-headache-for-power-suppliers-20100326-r37h.html
Quoted text here. Click to load it



People convey it in a strange way when they increase their CO2 emissions
allegedly in support of the idea that emissions should be reduced.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

It's far from clear that that's the problem at all. Governments around
the world seem to have accepted the idea that CO2 emissions need to be
reduced, as have their electorates (in the cases where there are
electorates). But no one actually wants to pay the price. When IPART
announced electricity price hikes in part to cover the costs of an ETS,
I didn't notice people saying "Ah, at last we're getting somewhere." No,
instead there was a lot of wingeing. People want CO2 emissions to be
reduced, but they want the price paid by the mysterious "they".

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Well, here are some pictures, from the Earth Hour site itself. OK, there
are no pictures of anyone actually in the process of lighting a candle
(unless I missed them), but there are plenty of candles in view. It's a
reasonable inference that someone lit them.

http://www.earthhour.org.au /

Sylvia.

Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



Quoted text here. Click to load it
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/earth-hour/earth-hour-headache-for-power-suppliers-20100326-r37h.html
Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Do they? Who did?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Who does and how did they do it?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

**I see. You are suggesting that the guys at CSIRO, BOM, NASA and the IPCC
are idiots and we should give credence to Tony Abbott and Steve Fielding. Is
that your contention? Please list Tony Abbott's and Steve Fielding's
credentials in climate science. The facts are MUCH clearer to those of us
with a passing knowledge of science. Creationist idiots need to be ignored.
It is a pity that you allow them any air.

 Governments around
Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Of course. The scientists are fighting ignorance and religious claptrap
(the Pope has expressed his opinion that global warming is bunk - Tony
Abbott has, of course, toed the company line).

 When IPART
Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Of course. The serious effects of global warming will not be paid for
another 50 years or so. Few people care what happens to their children or
grand children.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

**Indeed. WHO lit them?


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Site Timeline