Dirty Electricity

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Today Tonight has done it again.
Last night they promoted this Earthwise device which apparently saves up
to 35% electricity:
http://www.earthwisepowersavers.com.au /

"Independent testing so far shows promising results. Electrical Engineer
Greg Paxton has worked with the CSIRO and federal and state governments,
which are interested in the Power Saver's potential. Greg's very
optimistic. "I've seen the clear evidence that it actually does work.
Anyone can see that it reduces the current used by the apparatus that is
consuming the power", he said."

The device is said to have the blessing of Panacea University
(http://www.panaceauniversity.org/index.htm )

Here the TT report link:
http://www.7perth.com.au/view/today-tonight-articles/today-tonight-power-device /

One can save up to 35% electricity when using the power factor
correction device.
(somehow I always thought that a power factor other than 1 rather saves
you money since the meter only counts real power?)

There is also a list of ailments linked to "dirty electricity" on the
Earthwise site:

     * Autism
     * Breast Cancer
     * Headaches
     * Ringing in the ears / Tinnitus
     * Type 3 diabetes
     * ADD/ADHD
     * Multiple sclerosis
     * Chronic fatigue
     * Fibromyalgia
     * Childhood Leukemia
     * Asthma
     * Skin irritations
     * Mood's
     * Depression
     * Anxiety
     * Body aches, and pains
     * Dizziness
     * Impaired sleep
     * Memory loss

Your thoughts invited

Cheers

Tony

Re: Dirty Electricity
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**It's from Queensland, right?

Kinda says it all really.

What an absolute load of crap. I hope the ACCC crucifies these bastards.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Re: Dirty Electricity
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You may hope, but don't hold your breath. I've sent off a complaint, but
I expect it'll be filed in the "too hard" basket. Some of the technical
statements are completely untrue, and some are half-truths, but the
claims about monetary savings contain weasel words.

Sylvia.

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Today I got a response for my complaint to the ACCC, not bad after 1
week. It goes like this:

(if you don't want to read through all of this, the essence is that my
complaint has been recorded and the details of my complaint will be used
in the context of the ACCC’s ongoing monitoring to determine whether
there is a pattern of behaviour by Earthwise PowerSaver or a pattern
within their industry that may raise broader concerns)

Tony

/*---------------------------
"Thank you for your email of 4 February 2011 to the Australian
Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) regarding Earthwise PowerSaver.



The ACCC is responsible for administering the Competition and Consumer
Act 2010 which incorporates the Australian Consumer Law (ACL) in
Schedule 2 of that Act. The ACL is a single national law which aims to
protect consumers and ensure fair trading in Australia.  Under the ACL,
consumers have the same protections, and businesses have the same
obligations and responsibilities across Australia.



The ACL provides a range of provisions that protect consumers when they
purchase goods or services. Under section 29 of the ACL a person must
not, in trade or commerce, make false or misleading representations in
connection with the supply or possible supply of goods or services or in
connection with the promotion by any means of the supply or use of goods
or services. This includes misrepresentations concerning representations
that goods or services have sponsorship, approval, performance
characteristics, accessories, uses or benefits. Additionally section 18
of the ACL prohibits a person, in trade or commerce, engaging in conduct
which is misleading or deceptive, or which is likely to mislead or deceive.



As the conduct you have described may raise concerns under this
provision the details of your matter have been recorded in the ACCC’s
national database.



It should be noted that the ACCC cannot pursue all the complaints it
receives. While all complaints are carefully considered, the ACCC must
exercise its discretion to direct resources to the investigation and
resolution of matters that provide the greatest overall benefit for
consumers and businesses. The ACCC’s Compliance and Enforcement policy
describes in more detail how this discretion is exercised. This policy,
which is available on the ACCC’s website [www.accc.gov.au], lists a
number of factors that are weighed including whether conduct raises
national or international issues, involves significant consumer
detriment or a blatant disregard of the law.



In this instance the details of your complaint will be used in the
context of the ACCC’s ongoing monitoring to determine whether there is a
pattern of behaviour by Earthwise PowerSaver or a pattern within their
industry that may raise broader concerns.



It must be emphasised that, ultimately, it is a matter for the Courts to
determine whether the alleged conduct breaches the ACL and a private
right of action is available to anyone who suffers loss or damage as a
consequence of a contravention of this legislation. In any event, your
private rights of action will not be affected should the ACCC pursue
this matter.



Please note that your matter is important to the ACCC as it assists in
determining whether issues with national or wider public interest
implications exist. The ACCC closely studies the patterns of complaints
that it receives to ensure that its enforcement and education actions
are focused on the areas of greatest concern to Australian consumers.



Thank you for contacting the ACCC with your concerns. I hope this
information is of some assistance.



Yours sincerely"
---------------------------------*/





Re: Dirty Electricity
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It's identical to the one I just got, and is along the same lines as
replies I've received regarding other complaints. Essentially, it's a
statement that they're not actually going to do anything about it.

Sylvia.

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Im with Sylvia on this one.

Re: Dirty Electricity

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Yea, it's obvious, one gets away with selling snake oil in this country,
at least until someone goes to court about it.

Tony


Re: Dirty Electricity

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least until someone goes to court about it.
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If you are stupid enough to buy a 'Power/Energy Saver' after reading
all the posts here that have informed you - that it is a SCAM - then
you deserve to be ripped off.
The banks do a great job of ripping us all off - they basically use our
money to make profits which are never returned to us - they are in the
same league as the 'Earthwise PowerSaver', aren't they ? They take
your money for no return. Take those bastards to court instead.









Re: Dirty Electricity
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least until someone goes to court about it.
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No one who reads this group would be "stupid" enough to fall for the
scam. It's the ones who have no technical knowledge I am worried about.

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You can't compare them with Earthwise.
In general they provide a service. If you are talking about accounts
that give you 0.3% or so interest, just don't put much money on them.
If it's about a mortgage and the fees involved, there are non-bank lenders.
If you want to start a business try to get the best deal, there is
competition.
Banks are businesses and as such have to make money and they do it
within the framework of the law I believe. While Earthwise is selling a
device that promises to save you money but will never do so.

Some banks used to be government run services in Australia but now they
are all privatised. So blame the politicians who converted a public
service into a private business, which in the short term fixed the budget.

Accept the given reality and get bank shares, they pay good and regular
fully franked dividend:)

Tony


Re: Dirty Electricity

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You overlooked the fact that some who read this group are seemingly
devoid of technical knowledge.

Re: Dirty Electricity

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least until someone goes to court about it.
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It's the ones who have no technical knowledge I am
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Yes I can, they are in the same league, rip-off merchants are obvious, maybe
you are sucking up to them, eh ???

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you 0.3% or so interest, just don't put much money
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framework of the law I believe. While Earthwise is
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all privatised. So blame the politicians who converted
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budget.
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franked dividend:)


They are always ripping you off; that is the nature of their bank business, you
are too stupid to realise that you are being screwed left right and centre.



Re: Dirty Electricity

"TonyS"
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** Dozens of people have complained and staff at the ACA have seen the TV
exposure too.

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** The ACCC is a law enforcement body - much like the police.

They cannot reveal details of an on-going investigation or even say if one
is going on or not  -   to do so would alert the people being investigated,
plus allow any member of the public ( who knew one was going on ) to
publicly harass and defame a possibly innocent company about the simple FACT
they were being investigated by the ACCC.

Also, if you payed any attention - the offending product is only available
by getting it installed in one's home by one of their electricians. Far as I
can work out,  this is not yet being carried out on people's homes -
excepting a few houses that are part of a free trial. So there is currently
nothing to investigate.

When someone who HAS had a unit installed complains to the ACCC and invites
one of their staff to come and see it - things may happen.

A far better option is to EXPOSE  the scam on national TV and elsewhere as
often as possible - so it never takes off.

BTW:

One of the Earthwise dealers in Qld claims there is $10 million in stock
waiting to be installed  -   I reckon this figure is based on the installed
value of $ 1300 or more per unit.


...  Phil



Re: Dirty Electricity
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It certainly has the potential to reduce the need to increase
transmission capacity, and the need to build power factor correction
infrastructure, so it's understandable that the CSIRO and governments
would be interested, particularly if consumers can be duped into paying
for the devices themselves.

I doubt their interest derives from a belief that it will directly
reduce electricity bills.

I was unsucessful in finding the origin of the quote

"Over $80 billion dollars of electricity is unusable energy, but
billable in the U.S"

so its context is entirely unclear.

  Greg's very
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http://www.7perth.com.au/view/today-tonight-articles/today-tonight-power-device /
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Well, yes, it's true that it only counts real power, but what exactly
does "saving electricity" mean? The current is reduced, for sure.

On the Earthwise site it says you can "save up to 35% or more on your
electric bill each month". (What does "up to X or more" mean?)

Maybe you can, if you have nothing but reactive loads running, right off
the output from the Earthwise device, with the result that the only
energy you're consuming is the heat loss in meter and wires leading to
the device.

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Ah - finally an explanation. If only I'd been using clean power all
these years.

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Er, what?

Sylvia.

Re: Dirty Electricity

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I googled the above expression and found more such devices, like:

http://www.greenteamplus.com /
http://www.amerigreencorps.com/testimonials.html
http://glennbolton.com/2010/12/18/instantly-save-35-on-your-electricity-power-bills /

lol

Re: Dirty Electricity

"Stupider than Anyone Else Alive "

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**  Absolute bollocks.

If applied to every house in Australia, the AC supply system would collapse
from all the extra ( reactive) current being drawn.


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** That is a massive lie.


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** No one cent in savings even then.

Cos domestic customers here are only charged for actual energy consumption -
and the devices offered do nothing to reduce that.


.... Phil





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Why would it increase the current. It's intended to do the opposite. I
doubt it's as simple as sticking a supercap across the mains.

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If the device presents equal but opposite reactance to that of the load,
then it forms a parallel turned circuit, which presents infinite
impedance. So no current will pass through the meter, and there will be
no power bill.

Without the device, there is current passing through the meter, but it's
not exactly 90 degrees out of phase with the voltage because of the
resistance of the meter winding. So power is dissipated in the meter
itself, and the meter measures it, thus creating a non-zero power bill.

Whether it amounts to a 1 cent saving over a billing period, I don't
know, but it would be some amount, which given that the bill would be
zero with the device present, represents a huge (indeed infinite)
proportional saving.

So their 35% claimed saving (on power charges, not the availability
charge) might be supportable, albeit in a totally unrealistic scenario.

Sylvia.

Re: Dirty Electricity

"Stupider than Anyone Else Alive"


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**  Wrong.

Applied in the absurd and crude way that the scam device is intended to  -
it will.


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** My god you are  TOTALLY  INSANE.

    Should be put down like a mad dog.



..... Phil





Re: Dirty Electricity
Hi all,
there is already power factor correction "infrastructure" or capital works
in every terminal station. These are capacitor banks used to correct for the
mainly inductive loads of industry. The caps are switched in as needed.

From what I saw on the today tonight show I also assume it was a PFC device,
it's the only consclusion I could come to and on that basis saw the
following outcomes for people using the device.

1) If the user has an old mechanical meter their power bill will most likely
actually increase as these meters do not measure reactive (imaginary) power
only real power, so putting a PFC after the meter will increase the power
consumption observed by the meter. So all those people with older CF globes
that consume a lot of reactive power and don't have much of a PFC in them
will see their power bills go back up.

2) If the user has a new "smart" meter, they will observe no change in their
power bill as these meters charge for the reactive power.

Most if not all devices these days are equired to have PFC built in now
anyway to get the PF to at least 80% (think that's the number, it may be
higher) or more. I'm sure there is legislation or australian standards such
as AS/NZ 3823.2.2009 (that one covers air con ) that cover most appliance
types these days. So even less requirment for a consumer PFC.

The claims on EMI...hmmmm... not sure I got that at all, made no sense

Of course it may just be a box of nothing but a few pass through copper buss
bars

Greg



Re: Dirty Electricity

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it's the only consclusion I could come to and on
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actually increase as these meters do not measure
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consumer in Aussie in concerned.
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identical thing with the same claims has recently been
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by the meter.
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line.
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..
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Actually they do. I thought they had fixed the low PF problem with modern
CFL designs, but this doesn't seem to be the case.
Here is a link with some actual CFL PF measurements.
http://www.leonardo-energy.org/reactive-power-due-cfl-lighting


And here the subject is mentioned in Mailbag, Silicon Chip Issue 226
Extract:
"One point you do not mention – as far as I can work out, CFLs typically have a
power factor
of about 0.5 compared with a PF of 1.0 for incandescents."
SC replied:
"We did not mention power factor because we erroneously thought that this was no
longer
a problem in more recent CFLs. This is quite wrong and it can be a serious
problem if large
numbers of CFLs are used on one phase of the 240VAC mains supply."
http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_109012/article.html




Re: Dirty Electricity

"fritz"
 "Phil Allison"
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** Fraid you are wrong.

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** Got nothing to do with the fact there is no REACTIVE component in the
load presented by modern CFLs.

The item you quoted actually CONTRADICTS you.

The poor PF of typical CFLs is not due to any phase angle existing between
the AC supply voltage and current and as a result cannot be helped by adding
a capacitor across the AC supply.



.....  Phil



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