CFLs Compulsory for All ??

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**  Anyone seen tonight's news ??


Our fuckwit pollies have all climbed on a VERY dodgy Greenie bandwagon with
this asinine idea.

Like that episode of  "Yes Minister" where Sir Humphrey explained the
mysteries of  " Politicians logic "  to the minister like this  .....


" Imagine a very serious problem has been identified  .....

So, WE politicians must do * SOMETHING *  about it and soon  !!!

NEXT:  along comes an idea that seems to be in the right direction ...

Immediately the worried pollies all howl in unison

THIS   * IS *   SOMETHING    !!!!!

Therefore  * WE *  must do it    !!!!      "


The plain truth is that CFLs consume enormously more energy in their
creation and distribution than the familiar incandescent bulb.

PLUS  - dead ones generate ENORMOUSLY more and far more  SERIOUS
environmental pollution than tiny bit of glass and burnt tungsten wire does.

PLUS  -  they are a absolute pig to dim.

PLUS  -  they generate harsh, fluorescent tube type light the nobody likes
in their homes.

PLUS -  they are often slow to light up which can be a serious safety hazard
in many situations.


Anyone care to add to the list of  NEGATIVE impacts ??

BTW:

Bet Leo gets all fired up.




.......   Phil




Re: CFLs Compulsory for All ??



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Yes, REAL fluorescent tubes are far better than the compact types if you
really want more lumens per watt.

MrT.



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yes true, even allowing for economies of scale and influenced hugely by
point of manufacture...

But - how do we get our hands on a full economic (thermodynamic/CO2) analysis
of the differential of CFLs vs incandescents ?

Or better still,

Has Turnbull ever commissioned one ?

If not why not ?

Publish and get damned for ignoring it - I say !

Give em hell, cause in the long run they will make hell for us here soon !

.
.
.
.

<sigh>


Well it would be a lukewarm hell with not much land,



Price of ocean view lunar is looking up for the long term maybe, negative
gearing might be a prob though,

--
Regards
Mike
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Re: CFLs Compulsory for All ??


They explode! They dont like brownouts;
Frightened the shit out of me when doing the dishes and the one in the
kitchen decided to leave the planet.
Huge bang and particles everywhere.
They have small amounts of mercury in them.


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Re: CFLs Compulsory for All ??



"Phil Allison"


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** Forgot to mention the  HORRIBLE  power factor problem with most CFLs.

Just checked out a Philips "Genie" 11 watt  CFL.

Consumes 80 mA rms at 240 volts by taking sharp, 250 mA current spikes at
each AC voltage peak.

Makes the PF  =  0.56

Bet this lamp is not legal to sell in the UK or Europe where such harmonic
currents are regulated by law.

Can you get PFC ones here ?

For how much?



........  Phil







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Guess what going to happen here in the not too distant future?




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Take the time to listen to the shit radiated at HF from some of these
lamps, especially when they get a bit tired and the ESR of the internal
400V cap gets up a bit.

I have used several of these lamps as movable work lights over a bench,
their claims to longevity are bullshit.

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Also they get in the way of your remote control as they age, with Us
having to get up and shudder "EXERCISE"

The reality is they should give the lights out free, saving us having to
upgrade power stations and then they can up the electricty supply
charges...As they always do!!!

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They do. I got a mail out the other day saying they will even come
around and install a couple of them for you free as well. It is part
of some goverment program. There was a company at an eco show I went
too, and I have also seen them in shopping centres, that gives away an
eco pack with a couple of CFLs and a water saving shower head. Details
escape me though...

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They don't charge enough for electricity, nor water for that matter.

I pay extra for accedited Green Power which comes from 100% wind :-D

Dave :)


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I though it was WIND!

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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com says...

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Make it yourself, thats what we need to raise the tech level of middle
australia, its shouldnt be hard but the propoganda is that it is,

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As far as you know, factored in the 50% losses to your home from whatever
source ?

Who can trust accreditation, what practical difference does it make at
the switchyard - other than a policy shift to make more wind generators
"some time in the future" because more people pay for the "green option" ?


--
Regards
Mike
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Re: CFLs Compulsory for All ??


snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com says...
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Still HEAPS cheaper than putting solar cells on my roof.

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Accedited green power is government guaranteed and is audited.
Government jokes aside, you can be fairly confident that what you pay
for is what you get. Saying "who can trust it" and continue to use
fossil fuels is just silly.

It makes zero difference at the switch yard, your actual power could
be coming from anywhere, but that's not the point. The point is you
are paying for new renewable energy infrastructure and the power it
provides into the grid.

"New" green power costs you extra, "old" green power costs you nothing
extra, so why not switch?

If everyone made the switch they would have to build more renewable
capacity, at the moment there is a lot of spare capacity which is why
the new desalination plant in Sydney will use 100% green energy.
Switch to Green Power now, soak up the excess capacity, and make the
bastards build new infrastructure! :->

Dave :)


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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com says...
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Cricky Governemnt accredited means no accreditation. Ask your self, how
accurate are the wattmeters. Theyre Government accredited, though I bet
they lack in accuracy.
Years of running and saying theyre "acurate" like speed cameras without
proper testing labs in place, means "we say theyre accurate", but it may
not be so.


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Says who?

You sound like you are succumbing to the 'soften the electorate' propaganda, so
when they decide to double the charges to fund yet another stupid cock-up of an
idea proposed by consultants and committees to replace or fix the broken,
underfunded current infrastructure then you won't complain.

Governments don't want to carry the cost of the infrastructure any more, instead
trying to form private partnerships (and NSW has seen some really great examples
of how that can fail).

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On Feb 21, 6:01 pm, swanny
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I do believe my name, and only my name was in the post above :->

I think both services are cheap and that is why people just piss it
away.
12cents per kWh for non-replaceable fossil fuel electricity that took
millions of years to produce and who's output destroys our planet is
*ridiculously cheap* IMHO.
If it was more expensive the majority might actually take some notice
of how much they use and hence help reduce our impact.

As for water, recycled water (in Sydney anyway) is supplied at a loss,
and people just piss that away too thinking they can use as much as
they want because it's recycled, and there are no usage restrictions
to stop them.

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The only thing I am succumbing to is the threat fossil fuel
electricity poses to this planet.
Reduction is the #1 thing we can do to reduce our impact, and if they
have to raise the price to make people realise then I won't complain.

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instead
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examples
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Indeed, privatisation is getting beyond a joke.

Dave :)


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Fair comment. However I object to paying more simply because it's an incentive
to use less. I use as little as I can now, so why should I be penalised?
I'd like to go ex-grid, but the technology isn't there yet to provide a
reasonable alternative in suburbia.

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Ignorant, stupid people are everywhere.

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so
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an
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Only electricity? Fossil fuels are used in other areas as well.
I'm suspicious when the media are banging away at something 'in the national
interest'. It stinks of political PR spin. There's usually other agendas at play.

Maybe we could convert all the fat being carried by fat people into energy...

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instead
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examples
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Re: CFLs Compulsory for All ??


On Feb 21, 8:38 pm, swanny
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Yeah, I know, I'm in the same situation.
I do hope people wise up so prices *don't* have to rise.
It's not a bad start with more than 125000 homes already signed up for
Green Power, but that doesn't mean they are reducing usage as well.

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Yes, me too. From a financial point of view only a fool would put
solar cells on their roof in suburbia when you can now buy solar power
from the already existing grid for an extra 5cents/kWh.

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Yep, so are stupid goverment people who allow the sale of recycled
water for about 1/3 of what is costs to actually produce.

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propaganda, so
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of an
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Yep, plenty of places.

I try to reduce my car usage, and I offset all my carbon as well,
quite a few schemes around to do that now.

I'd love to get one of those electric scooters, but the idea of
getting creamed on the highway is not all that inviting. Now, if only
everyone switched to them at once...

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play.

There are ALWAYS other agendas at play!

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What if they hooked up those treadmills on the "Biggest Looser" show
to a grid inverter?

Dave :)


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Heaps of greenee bullshit snipped

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Do a bit of research FFS.
Recycled water in Sydney is sold at 80% of the cost of fresh potable water.
Rather than argue have a look at the IPART site



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I have been informed by someone in the know at Sydney Water that it
costs around $1.60/kL to produce and deliver the recycled water, and
it is currently sold to residential customers at around $0.30/kL,
which is soon to be raised to more like $1/kL.

If you have numbers to the contrary I would be interested to see them.

Dave :)


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That has nothing to do with my claim that they make a LOSS on
supplying recycled water.

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Ok, I just did, here:
http://www.ipart.nsw.gov.au/files/Fact%20Sheet%20-%20Pricing%20Arrangements%20for%20Recycled%20Water%20and%20Sewer%20Mining%20-%20Metropolitan%20Water%20-%2031%20October%202006%20-%20Website%20Document.PDF

Quote:
"Prices for recycled water at Rouse Hill were first set by the
Tribunal in 1993 and have remained almost the same in real terms since
then. The charges were initially set, and have remained, well below
the scheme's operating cost to encourage development and use of the
recycled water. "

That backs up my source and claim that Sydney Water make a LOSS from
supplying recycled water.

Once again, if you have the figures to prove otherwise, I would like
to see them.

Dave :)


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