Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget

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http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-budget/

Watch the 20 minute video on that page.

On 17th July 2013 I delivered a talk at the CommsDay Wholesale and Data Centre Summit in Sydney about the NBN called  
?The Ideal Wholesale NBN Market?. Simon Hackett, Internode founder

This talk proposes just a few of the many ways in which the build cost, build time, and operating cost of the FTTH NBN  
could be lowered (perhaps dramatically lowered) by auditing the entire existing design and by applying the fruits of  
some lateral thinking about what is really needed to make the network work ? and what the network can do without.

======================


--  
Don McKenzie

$30 for an Olinuxino Linux PC:
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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget
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  Great presentation! Must-'watch' (listen/read) material for NBN
proponents and opponents alike!

  Very refreshing to see such a common-sense presentation about the
financial, business, usage, technical, etc.. aspects, without a
political agenda.

  Be sure to also read the comments, especially the further comments
from Simon Hackett.

Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget

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Trouble with that line is that Turdbull has decided to go for FTTN instead.

Some should take him out the back and put a bullet in the back of the neck.

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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget

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For obvious reasons. Turnball's not in the business of dragging projects  
forever on top of budget blow outs.
He's capable of creative thinking and come up with better solutions. And  
FTTN is nothing new. Turnball didn't invent it, he's promoting it.
His idea is cost effective and doesn't hinder the future full fibre network  
layout.

On the other hand, you don't believe in FTTN, FTTC, FTTH etc etc.
You believe in leaving the PSTN, POTS as it is, the same way you believe in  
leaving the climate change as it is.

The problem is you ain't gonna be around to get your arse kicked if you  
happen to be dead wrong, 'cos you will be already dead dead.

NBN FTTH has been a real white elephant giant tortoise so far, and I'm bit  
sceptical about the catch phrase of  'fibre on a copper budget'.
Sounds way too optimistic and unrealistic, but can lead to real solutions on  
a much  lower budget than the current white elephant.

Turnball's solutions aint' that bad, considering out current budget issues.


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Oh, you violent violent man!!!  :-))
I'm hoping to find a way to introduce you to Carl William's cell mate. :-)

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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget
On 24/07/2013 12:50 PM, Damian wrote:
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Turnbull is a money man not a techie which explains his priorities.

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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget


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He's a lot more than just a money man.

He's also a terminal fuckwit on climate change alone.

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Nope. His priority in this case is to produce some marginally
plausible way to bullshit the coalition's way out of their
predicament now that someone has managed to get it thru
his thick skull that his original claim that wireless can do
anything that the NBN can do is complete and utter bullshit.

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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget

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With the existing technologies, wireless won't get anywhere near a fibre  
NBN.
But, where did he say "wireless can do anything fibre NBN can do:"?!!
Sounds bit too futuristic to me.

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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget
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Its only fools like Turdbull that didn?t realise that.

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Back in the days when the coalition were saying they would pull the
plug on the NBN once they got elected, in the election after the Dud
had been assassinated and even before that, just after the Dud had
proclaimed that we would have a FTTP NBN when no one was actually
stupid enough to tender for his stupid FTTN NBN. Even before the
Dud had become PM the first time, in that election campaign too.

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Just terminally pig ignorant on shared bandwidth alone.

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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget
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I'd have to agree with Rod in this instance (yes, strange things do  
happen!).

Compare the coalition's rejigged-one-more-time-'cause-we've-got-NFI policy  
to that of roadworks. Let's take the example of majority of the M5 from  
Liverpool to Lakemba.

They had the ability to implement three lanes in each direction when it was  
being built, for nominally 15% more than the cost of building two lanes in  
each direction - but they chose not to. Now the widening of the road to  
three lanes each way is costing them 150% of the original building cost.

Let's pluck an exemplaery figure out of my arse - if the original cost of  
building the M5 from Liverpool to Lakemba was $1B, it would've cost them  
$1.15B to make it a six-lane road - but it's now costing them a total  
(including original woks) of $2.5B.

As financially painful as it might be in the short term, a complete  
investment in infrastructure will yield massive rewards going into the  
future without constantly "sticky-taping" costly improvements as the need  
arises for each.

That doesn't mean to say I fully agree with the way in which it was  
implemented; engaging contractors with NFI to do the job just because they  
said they can was an utterly idiotic decision to make, not at all different  
to the way in which the "free roof insulation" scheme was implemented.

Ultimately, we _do_ need this type of infrastructure if we're to even  
survive through the remainder of the century - we no longer have a viable  
manufacturing industry, most of our intellectual resources are being shipped  
out, and anybody who thinks we're getting a fair price for the ore that's  
being dug out of our land is an idiot.

Without providing technological infrastrucutre, it won't be long before we  
end up being another Greece. Why do you think India's booming? It's not  
because of their natural resources and definitely not because of their  
capable citizens - it's because their government was astute enough to  
realise that providing appropriate tools would allow even incompetents to  
flourish in the new world economy.

--  
Bob Milutinovic
Cognicom


Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget

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But, you are not. Rod's against both governments and opposition's version of  
NBN.
Where he stands is unclear.
According to him, we already have decent broadband all around the country.

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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget
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I was only agreeing with "But his approach will cost even more than FTTP  
will." - I don't see anything from him unless someone else quotes it, and in  
this instance that's all I saw.

Decent broadband perhaps for 70+-year-olds using the 'net to send e-mails to  
their great grandchildren, but FFS, even Romania has better 'net  
connectivity than Australia. We entirely skipped VDSL+, a technology which  
could've bought us several more years of speed with zero cabling outlay (and  
relatively small equipment outlay at the exchanges).

--  
Bob Milutinovic
Cognicom


Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget

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I have a friend in Romania.  They have decent cable internet there as well.
Yes, I think VDSL has been overlooked here for whatever the reason.
IMO,  Fibre NBN is a gamble and a good one.  But we should've debated and  
researched it lot more before going ahead with the current FTTP version of  
the NBN. I think it was implemented bit too soon without enough consultation  
and research. Similar thing happened with the Home Insulation Scheme as well


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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget


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No it isnt, just a waste of money.

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No, just a waste of money.

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Your clown pulled it out of the hat when he discovered that
no one was actually stupid enough to tender for his FTTN.

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And without any attempt to justify spending $50B when most
of us can have a very decent broadband service either.

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It happened with every single thing that terminal fuckwit did in fact.
  


Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget

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That depends


That depends


Somebody must have deleted it, 'cos i can't find it anywhere.
Got any links, dude?!

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Wonder why all the outback towns and many regional areas are hopeless when  
it comes to 'decent' broadband.

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Yeah, I know, J. Coward was that stupid, other than his federal bill on gun  
control on looneys.

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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget


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Nope.


Because you wanked yourself completely blind.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Broadband_Network#Initial_failed_federal_government_RFP_2007.2F09

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They aren't. They ALL have ADSL2+ available to anyone who wants it.

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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget


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Only to those as stupid as you.

I have said repeatedly now that we should be providing
a decent broadband service for those who can't currently
have one if they want one, and that how that is best done
varys with where they are.

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I have never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like that.

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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget

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That's pretty vague, isn't it?!! Seriously lacks any technical details.
How can the outback towns get at least 20Mbps?!!
Is is possible the current satellite interenet technology to provide a  
minimum satisfactory speed?!
What about the towns(either regional outback ones or not so regional) that  
need 50Mbps speed(at least)?!
You need to give some tech details, otherwise they are just sweet words that  
may turn bitter.

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Yes, you said something remotely resemble that.
I quote you here,

"I just donít see any reason to be
spending anything like $50B NOW when most of us have
a very viable broadband service if we want it."

"It makes a lot more sense to be delivering a decent broadband
service to those who can't currently have one using whatever
makes the most sense with those who can't currently have
a decent broadband service."

And you provide us very little detail how you gonna do that!
I'm dying here to hear more details of your broadband plan for the nation.
'Whatever' isn't good enough. Pollies like to hear details regardless of  
whether they can understand it or not.


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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget


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Nope.


Nope, those are there right now.

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They don?t need at least 20Mbps.

ADSL2+ will do them fine and most of them have that right now.

The problem isnt the towns, its those well out of the towns.

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Yes.


None of them need anything like that.

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Nope.


Nope.




Nope.



Even someone as stupid as you should be able to
grasp that MOST OF US is nothing even remotely
resembling anything like ALL OF US.

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Even someone as stupid as you should be able to
grasp that THOSE WHO CAN'T CURRENTLY HAVE
ONE is nothing even remotely resembling anything
like ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY.

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Because anyone with even half a clue who has been following
the debate about the NBN knows that that is by using whatever
of ADSL2+. wireless the way the NBN is doing it right now, and
satellite and FTTP are the way to do that.

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Then just die quietly.

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You get no say what so ever on what is or is not good enough.

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No one with even half a clue actually gives a flying red fuck
what those stupid clowns might or might not like to hear.

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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget

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I would, but not before you.

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Why not?! You seem to be getting a say.

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Do  J.Coward and T. Ababttoire fall into the same catergory?!

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Re: Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget

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If that's the case why are you saying FTTP NBN is a waste?!!!

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